Are the Chinese lying about their number of deaths due to CV19?

[Docscurlock]

Foxnews seems to think so, Let's post news either way in this thread.
The news website Caixin.com reported that 5,000 urns had been delivered by a supplier to the Hankou Funeral Home in one day. That's double the number of deaths Xi's officials claimed. There have also been social media posts that have claimed all seven of Wuhan's funeral homes have handed out 3,500 urns every day. Another resident of the Hubei province – where Wuhan is the capital – told RFA that the majority of people there believe more than 40,000 people died before and during the lockdown. That's tens of thousands more than the government has claimed.
Chen told the news outlet that no one in Wuhan believes the official death toll is 2,500.

"Before the epidemic began, the city's crematoriums typically cremated around 220 people a day," he said, adding that during the epidemic, the government transferred cremation workers from around China to Wuhan to cremate bodies around the clock.

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[Caballus]

Of course they are lying; that goes without question. However, they've already moved on from that and are now focused on gaining international leverage by contributing to a solution. They're delivering supplies and providing medical care all over the world. So, it's important for us to get the narrative right and take the right actions, or be outmaneuvered.

 

[Gregs24]

This is actually quite a difficult question. They may or may not be lying, but the first problem is how you define a COVID19 death. If you die with COVID19 or die from it. In many other countries that is neither clear, nor even possible to clarify.

Fore sure COVID19 is giving a lot of old people a nudge through the pearly gates, would they have lived another week, month, year ? Who knows.

An old boy who fell and broke his hip near us last week sadly died over the weekend. He was tested for COVID19 (negative) but if he had tested positive would he have been considered a COVID death? Why test him anyway as he had no signs of the disease ?

 

[lacanteen]

Of course they are lying; that goes without question. However, they've already moved on from that and are now focused on gaining international leverage by contributing to a solution. They're delivering supplies and providing medical care all over the world. So, it's important for us to get the narrative right and take the right actions, or be outmaneuvered.

But supposedly, some of these supplies are defective. Test kits don't work, masks are defective, in other words, regular Chinese crap.

 

[Caballus]

But supposedly, some of these supplies are defective. Test kits don't work, masks are defective, in other words, regular Chinese crap.

Ok, so how do we exploit that to our advantage? If not, the Chinese fix it like a recalled oil cooler line or a "missing" trans cooler and the world forgets about it and moves on. Without a strategic approach and consistent narrative we are reactive at best...or whiny. Neither equals effective.

 

[Docscurlock]

Of course they are lying; that goes without question. However, they've already moved on from that and are now focused on gaining international leverage by contributing to a solution. They're delivering supplies and providing medical care all over the world. So, it's important for us to get the narrative right and take the right actions, or be outmaneuvered.

Like the non working CV19 tests they sold to Italy
Seems like a pretty good business model. 1. Start a global pandemic 2. Lie about how serious the global pandemic is. 3. Provide material for sale to help control the pandemic. Wash, rinse repeat.

 

[Docscurlock]

Ok, so how do we exploit that to our advantage? If not, the Chinese fix it like a recalled oil cooler line or a "missing" trans cooler and the world forgets about it and moves on. Without a strategic approach and consistent narrative we are reactive at best...or whiny. Neither equals effective.

We fix it by realizing that 1. the Chinese can't be trusted for anything 2. Being sure that the world knows exactly how untrustworthy the Chinese are and 3. Limiting any dealings with them in the future and finding other sources from a more reputable country for the things we need.

 

[Caballus]

Like the non working CV19 tests they sold to Italy
Seems like a pretty good business model. 1. Start a global pandemic 2. Lie about how serious the global pandemic is. 3. Provide material for sale to help control the pandemic. Wash, rinse repeat.

Those are all good points, but useless if the points are only made to the domestic U.S. audience.

If you talk to those they are providing them to, they are grateful for the effort to help, which means their message is working and they are gaining leverage.

How to we gain the initiative in the information sphere? The Fins provide an interesting model.

If we're happy to fight it out domestically by crying about our homeland media coverage, they will continue to run mental layups around us.

 

[Docscurlock]

Those are all good points, but useless if the points are only made to the domestic U.S. audience.

If you talk to those they are providing them to, they are grateful for the effort to help, which means their message is working and they are gaining leverage.

How to we gain the initiative in the information sphere? The Fins provide an interesting model.

If we're happy to fight it out domestically by crying about our homeland media coverage, they will continue to run mental layups around us.

I don't know the answer to everything, myself, stay away from China. That's not a problem, I wouldn't go there to witness the Second Coming. There is obvious manipulation and money making going on by the Chinese, I am just making sure you are aware of it. I guess I am starting the information dissemination in the US by myself.

 

[Caballus]

I don't know the answer to everything, myself, stay away from China. That's not a problem, I wouldn't go there to witness the Second Coming. There is obvious manipulation and money making going on by the Chinese, I am just making sure you are aware of it. I guess I am starting the information dissemination in the US by myself.

Yeah, point taken. From my perspective, the domestic, US audience is the easiest. They (and the Russians) do invest a lot in manipulating the US public, but that is the easier "battle". The real competition is for influence abroad. We can use economics to influence China, but they can compensate to a large degree buy building their markets elsewhere. Our government (and theirs) has four elements of power: diplomacy, information, military, economics. They are leveraging information in order to put themselves in a stronger diplomatic and economic position. Again, domestic politics are what they are, but our well being as a nation lies largely in our freedom of action outside our borders. In that regard, what others think matters...

 

[Docscurlock]

Yeah, point taken. From my perspective, the domestic, US audience is the easiest. They (and the Russians) do invest a lot in manipulating the US public, but that is the easier "battle". The real competition is for influence abroad. We can use economics to influence China, but they can compensate to a large degree buy building their markets elsewhere. Our government (and theirs) has four elements of power: diplomacy, information, military, economics. They are leveraging information in order to put themselves in a stronger diplomatic and economic position. Again, domestic politics are what they are, but our well being as a nation lies largely in our freedom of action outside our borders. In that regard, what others think matters...

Can the Italians possibly be dumb enough to wonder where this crap came from that is killing Italians in droves?

 

[Caballus]

Can the Italians possibly be dumb enough to wonder where this crap came from that is killing Italians in droves?

It's not a matter of being dumb. Consider the following:

1. Although the U.S. narrative is that Italy is where they are because they let the Chinese in, the truth of the matter is that the disease made its way in during a big European vacation week, and most likely more via Germany than via China. Italy almost immediately began to isolate cities and regions in response. The Chinese and Russians have responded with aid (Russia's is delivered by military troops--yeah, really!). So, even if the Chinese started it, they are trying to help address it. Chinese: "Wow, this is so much bigger than all of us. Ours is under control now let us help you out."

2. Understandably, in their eyes, after the disease is addressed is when it's time to reconcile. In the meantime, they have to keep their people alive and the Chinese are helping do that. Afterwards, try to get an Italian to bad mouth (or not buy from) the Chinese.

3. Speaking of ancient history, we are talking the home of the Roman empire. They've been through a lot and understand near term priorities and strategic patience, as do the Chinese.

 

[Docscurlock]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/nethe...-reject-china-made-coronavirus-test-kits-gear
The Netherlands joins Spain, Turkey, Georgia, and the Czech Republic in their concerns over masks and test kits. The claims come as the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases surge in the United States and Europe, highlighting the dependence many countries have on Chinese imports.

Maybe this will get people thinking that dependence on China is a bad thing.....

 

[Caballus]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/nethe...-reject-china-made-coronavirus-test-kits-gear
The Netherlands joins Spain, Turkey, Georgia, and the Czech Republic in their concerns over masks and test kits. The claims come as the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases surge in the United States and Europe, highlighting the dependence many countries have on Chinese imports.

Maybe this will get people thinking that dependence on China is a bad thing.....

Fox is for a domestic audience. Do a search for China on this page:
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/category/corona/

 

[Docscurlock]

2. Understandably, in their eyes, after the disease is addressed is when it's time to reconcile. In the meantime, they have to keep their people alive and the Chinese are helping do that. Afterwards, try to get an Italian to bad mouth (or not buy from) the Chinese.

This is exactly what I am proposing now, I realize that public perception isn't going to change overnight but our country needs to stay in front of this so we have less chance of going through this again. Even I wouldn't turn down a chinese manufactured respirator right now, but when this is over, into the trash they should go and replaced with good ol Made in the USA.

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