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The Big Fat Track Car Cooling Thread

TeeLew

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Unfortunately, the V8 radiators are taller than the Ecoboost rads, extending down into the space occupied by the intercooler. Most aftermarket intercoolers still use this space, with a thicker core. Yes, it is possible to get an intercooler than doesn't use this space, and then reconfigure the rad mounts to handle a V8 sized rad, but it's not simple. And for the vast majority of Eco owners with aftermarket intercoolers, they need to now buy another intercooler.

But at least we know that C&R is very familiar wit the S550 platform. I may reach out to them next spring and see if they have any thoughts on an Eco sized radiator, i.e., stock height with thicker core.
OK, we'll have to revisit this before the order. The GT4 rad is actually 3 1/4" shorter than the Shelby model, which might make it the right size for an Eco? Both rads use the same core, so cooling would be significantly improved. Building these all in one shot is going to be the most economical for everyone.
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shogun32

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hmm, could they create the GT solution to be a the size of the EB perf-pack radiator (but max thickness) and the oil cooler would be the same size as say the Wagner Intercooler for the EB - air or liquid? I'm not sure how much a problem heat is with EB and more to the point whether there is remotely sufficient demand for it.
 

SVO MkII

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hmm, could they create the GT solution to be a the size of the EB perf-pack radiator (but max thickness) and the oil cooler would be the same size as say the Wagner Intercooler for the EB - air or liquid? I'm not sure how much a problem heat is with EB and more to the point whether there is remotely sufficient demand for it.
Heat is a big issue in all turbo motors. Another way of looking at it is the specific output of the EB motor compared to the V8. If the V8 was making the same hp/liter as the EB, it would be around 675 hp. This is also why the factory calls for heavier oil in the EB than the V8, i.e., 5w30 street, 5w50 track.

Yes, lack of demand for a serious Ecoboost performance radiator is a big issue. It probably points toward a custom, one off creation, $$$.
 

shogun32

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so, here's an insightful writeup on the EB radiator PP vs Mishimoto
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...r-rd-part-3-final-prototype-and-testing-data/

The GT writeup is missing the final conclusion article. I don't know why. They cranked the cross-section to 2" thick in their design.
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...shimotos-mustang-gt-aluminum-radiator-part-2/

So I'm thinking an EB-sized radiator 2" (more?) thick could be mounted to the GT and the intercooler area converted to oil and it would do pretty well.

Looks like 42mm thick https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-GT and https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-EcoBoost is already available.
 
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racingandfishing

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so, here's an insightful writeup on the EB radiator PP vs Mishimoto
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...r-rd-part-3-final-prototype-and-testing-data/

The GT writeup is missing the final conclusion article. I don't know why. They cranked the cross-section to 2" thick in their design.
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...shimotos-mustang-gt-aluminum-radiator-part-2/

So I'm thinking an EB-sized radiator 2" (more?) thick could be mounted to the GT and the intercooler area converted to oil and it would do pretty well.

Looks like 42mm thick https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-GT and https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-EcoBoost is already available.

Size isn't the only factor in radiator performance....yeah, I know, that's what he/she said...And guessing that if there were great results, they would have posted them.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0707-high-performance-cooling-system/
 

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Size isn't the only factor in radiator performance....yeah, I know, that's what he/she said...And guessing that if there were great results, they would have posted them.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0707-high-performance-cooling-system/
100% this. Case in point: Fluidyne. Their proprietary tech is all in air fin and tube design (in tandem with an oversized 3" 3-pass core). FWIW, I never have coolant/CHT issues with their radiator (combined with full fencing), even in less-than-ideal conditions running 15 minute sessions @ 5000ft+ w/ 750rwhp in 90+ degree temps - despite having a 1000cu inch s/c heat exchanger and setrab 650/610 oil/tranny coolers stacked in front. Highest CHTs observed always in the 210-220 range.

IMG_3702.jpeg


IMG_3699.jpeg


IMG_4695.jpeg
 

shogun32

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Case in point: Fluidyne. Their proprietary tech is all in air fin and tube design (in tandem with an oversized 3" 3-pass core). FWIW, I never have coolant/CHT issues with their radiator
any mods needed to support that radiator? You removed the fan or it doesn't support one?
 

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any mods needed to support that radiator? You removed the fan or it doesn't support one?
sorry, that was a mock up pic from the offseason - OEM fan is mounted, no extra fab needed to make that happen.

upload_2020-8-31_17-0-49.jpeg
 

SVO MkII

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so, here's an insightful writeup on the EB radiator PP vs Mishimoto
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...r-rd-part-3-final-prototype-and-testing-data/

The GT writeup is missing the final conclusion article. I don't know why. They cranked the cross-section to 2" thick in their design.
https://www.mishimoto.com/engineeri...shimotos-mustang-gt-aluminum-radiator-part-2/

So I'm thinking an EB-sized radiator 2" (more?) thick could be mounted to the GT and the intercooler area converted to oil and it would do pretty well.

Looks like 42mm thick https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-GT and https://www.steeda.com/CSF-Mustang-High-Performance-Aluminum-Radiator-15-17-EcoBoost is already available.
I suspect the Mishimoto is sufficient for stock power levels. I really wish that Mishimoto would've shown some test data at the track, instead of cruising at 65 mph. I'm not convinced that a X% improvement cruising at a steady state will result in a similar improvement during a 30 min HPDE session. Maybe, but it would help to show that test data. Especially if the motor has been tuned to anything beyond stock power levels.

FYI, the Mishimoto is a 2" core, compared to approx 1.5" for the PP radiator.
 

TeeLew

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I suspect the Mishimoto is sufficient for stock power levels. I really wish that Mishimoto would've shown some test data at the track, instead of cruising at 65 mph.
Exactly. That was a function test, not a performance one. Honestly, I wouldn't put that info on a website because it's completely trivial.
 

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Bahndvr

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@boardkat who made that 1000cu inch s/c heat exchanger?
 

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@boardkat who made that 1000cu inch s/c heat exchanger?
this is an early production triple titanic heat exchanger made by the department of boost. in tandem with the 26A water pump and -20AN lines used throughout (including manifold inlet/outlet), the cooling system flows ~28gpm and keeps IATs much lower than anything else available in the market.
 

Bahndvr

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this is an early production triple titanic heat exchanger made by the department of boost. in tandem with the 26A water pump and -20AN lines used throughout (including manifold inlet/outlet), the cooling system flows ~28gpm and keeps IATs much lower than anything else available in the market.
I can't find the eye bulge emoji - but very good
I tried installing the Whipple oversized H/E but I could never get all the pieces.
 
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boardkat

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I can't find the eye bulge emoji - but very good
I tried installing the Whipple oversized H/E but I could never get all the pieces.
until you upgrade all inlets/outlets (on the radiator, h/e, pump), your flow will be restricted by the smallest bottleneck (most likely the 5/8" inlet/outlet on the manifold, although these can be upgraded to 7/8" on the Roush iirc)
DOB has done analysis on flow with various components, both restrictive or not; find your combination under the "Intercooler Water Pump Flow Charts" section here: https://www.departmentofboost.com/tech/

my guess is you're seeing ~5gpm with your setup (assumed Roush from your sig), which will sideline you on the track pretty quick driving the car hard at any level of boost :frown:
good news is you can easily double that by using the same h/e and pump as me, or triple/quadruple flow if you upgrade the manifold inlet/outlet to 7/8" and lines/fittings to -16AN (3x) or -20AN (4x). there's also a smaller, single pass version of the h/e that was just released with a lower footprint/price; for most people, this is "good enough", and leap years better than OOTB Roush/VMP/Whipple cooling setups.

if you have more questions, PM me and i'll put you in touch with them.
 

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Having a turbo v8 car I’ve looked into getting a shorter radiator to free up some space.

currently running the mishimoto. But I’ve considered running the chase bays 240sx tucked radiator due to it having the same inlet and outlet locations.

it’s measurements are very similar to an ecoboost height and it also is a 3” thick radiator. Yes it would take some custom work but it’s cooling capacity is much higher overall than the ecoboost options.
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