TDStuart Tuning Adventure

[engineermike]

Let me know your guys thoughts or if there is an easier way to do all of this.

Explained in detail in post 852.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/tdstuart-tuning-adventure.201824/page-57#post-4069212

As a side note, going by how the untuned mapped points “drive” is a terrible way to determine which ones to use.

If you want to cut it to as few as 3 mapped points, I can lay those out for you as well. THAT is the easier way to do it. Trying to tune 26 mapped points is impractical for you.

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[markmurfie]

So I am thinking I should figure out how I want to setup my mapped points so I can know what mapped points to tune.

For example, I was just testing (with imrc locked open), having MP14, MP15, MP19, MP20, MP21, MP22, MP25, and MP26 enabled.

here was my settings for FE mode:

I copied the blending and just have it set to blend between MP0 (MP14) -> MP7 (MP19) -> MP0 (MP14). I like how it drives, I left MP15, MP20, MP21, MP22, MP25 enabled as they were either being used for blending while in FE or are used in OS/OP. I enabled MP26 to see what it was doing.

I haven't touched snap lines yet because I'm not 100% sure how they work. What does MPOP do and is there any reason to use it?

One thing I was thinking was to change MP25 from -20,20 to -20,30 and change MP26 from -20,35 to 0,30. That way the car should mostly blend MP25 and MP26 as it goes from -20,30 -> 0,30 during OP.

I wonder how hard it would be to keep imrc enabled. Would I just have to add MP0, MP2, and MP7 (The main MP that would be used during cruise and idle)?

So then the final would be:
MP0, MP2, MP7, MP14, MP15, MP19, MP20, MP21, MP22, MP25, MP26

Still a lot of points and maybe I could make some optimizations to cut down MP20, MP21, and MP22.

Let me know your guys thoughts or if there is an easier way to do all of this.

I think this is a good first step in understanding what mapped points, distance tables and arrays you want to setup. Plus how to set them up. Its keeping it simple.

I think you are still tuning MP 19 though and have a bit more to go before you have just a single mapped point tuned.

MP OP was used in older cars when they went to OP mode. That feature was replaced by blending, pretty much for the reasons I suggested adding a -20, 0 point to what Mike suggested. Roush and whipple are PD blowers remove the IMRC and draw a lot on the 11-14 strategies.
Snap to points and lines are used to cut down on the number of points distribution of weight is spread across in the modes. You want to tune the snap to points and lines well, the rest can be left with a good bit of error. This is the simplification Ford uses in their calibration.

I would say yes to MP 0, 2, and 7 to keep the IMRC, then just tune the Opening/ closing tables to have them open where those angles overlap.

So my next step for tuning the mp would be that?

Yes, but do you have any way other than leaving the DD tables stock? The torque the engine makes locked into MP19 is going to be different from MP14. While the driver demand table will be saying those are going to be making the same torque. You are ok tuning all the torque to load and load to torque tables to the same driver demand table values?

 

[K4fxd]

This is where an eddy current dyno is priceless.

 

[markmurfie]

This is where an eddy current dyno is priceless.

Hes doing the SD with out a MAP sensor.
You don't need a Dyno.

 

[K4fxd]

You don't need a Dyno.

No you don't, but it is nice to have.

 

[tdstuart]

Yes, but do you have any way other than leaving the DD tables stock? The torque the engine makes locked into MP19 is going to be different from MP14. While the driver demand table will be saying those are going to be making the same torque. You are ok tuning all the torque to load and load to torque tables to the same driver demand table values?

Can you explain this a little more, I am a bit confused!

 

[tdstuart]

I think this is a good first step in understanding what mapped points, distance tables and arrays you want to setup. Plus how to set them up. Its keeping it simple.

I think you are still tuning MP 19 though and have a bit more to go before you have just a single mapped point tuned.

MP OP was used in older cars when they went to OP mode. That feature was replaced by blending, pretty much for the reasons I suggested adding a -20, 0 point to what Mike suggested. Roush and whipple are PD blowers remove the IMRC and draw a lot on the 11-14 strategies.
Snap to points and lines are used to cut down on the number of points distribution of weight is spread across in the modes. You want to tune the snap to points and lines well, the rest can be left with a good bit of error. This is the simplification Ford uses in their calibration.

I would say yes to MP 0, 2, and 7 to keep the IMRC, then just tune the Opening/ closing tables to have them open where those angles overlap.

This is what I came up with as a starting point. So the snap lines just help the car focus when transitioning from one mapped point to another?

 

[engineermike]

Murfie recommended 9 max,, I said 6 but get by with 3 for now, yet you arrived at 11. You have several points that have no real purpose and will take a ton of time to properly calibrate.

I’d start with just 3: 0/0, 5/35, and -20/35, all with imrc open. This will get it started and idling, cruise in an ok place, and everything you need for wot. If you want to smooth the idle a little you can add one at 20/0 later. If you want to improve cruise fuel economy you can add 15/50 later. If you want to further improve fuel economy you can do 1 imrc closed point at 15/50 or 3 if you want to follow murfies logic. There’s nothing wrong with starting with a minimal amount and adding more later as you get time.

Snap lines just force it to interpolate between only 2 mapped points if the measured coordinate is between the 2 points. Otherwise it would interpolate data from all of them, weighted by distance. I wouldn’t say it’s only used for transition because the stock tune has it regularly running in steady state on snap lines. For us, snap lines make it much easier to tune because only 2 points are at play at a time.

In my 3-mapped-point example above, you would make a snap line between -20/35 and 5/35, then command all OP cam timing to be between those two points. That way, it only uses those two points and, no others, at wot.

 

[Pistol_91]

I use 0-6 and 2 are used for OS. And 1 is for idle. Mikes right you really don't need many lol

 

[engineermike]

I use 0-6 and 2 are used for OS. And 1 is for idle. Mikes right you really don't need many lol

I use 5 in my car and in my DD truck. My truck is an original Roush cal and os. It used to be 7 but after recalibrating SD for some points I said that’s enough, I’ll just use less points.

 

[K4fxd]

3 is a good place to start. Idle, cruise and WOT

 

[tdstuart]

So maybe 6 would be better place to start?

MP0 - MP3 are for idle and cruise
MP4 & MP5 is for wot as the car moves from MP4 -> MP5 at high rpm

Edit: MP3 was incorrectly labeled, updated

 

[K4fxd]

Look at this tune for ideas

 

[tdstuart]

Look at this tune for ideas

Am I stupid or does that tune just have MP14-25 enabled so that none of the imrc closed MP are enabled?

 

[engineermike]

So maybe 6 would be better place to start?

I’m confused. I laid out fully explained suggestions in post 852 and several times since then. Markmurfie offered up a good plan in post 855. But now you’re posting something that doesn’t match any of the above, and asking for input. What’s wrong with all the layouts that were suggested?

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