Stereo Information (Wiring, Upgrades, etc...)

[floydbanks28]

So youre saying the HU already has low level, but it has an EQ associated with this low level signal that needs to be disabled before you can properly use it to run your amp. What would happen if you didn't disable this EQ? I guess I didn't realize that low levels could have EQ associated with them??

Also if you wanted to run your factory amp as well as aftermarket could you use the line level from the HU? or would you be forced to use a LOC? I want to keep my factory amp powering all the speakers I am not replacing.

Sponsored

 

[floydbanks28]

"Where exactly is everywhere"
Every single website I have been to advises to match hardware based on the RMS rating. I realize that if you know what you are doing you can push more and just not turn up the volume high for an extended period of time.

 

[GTP]

"Where exactly is everywhere"
Every single website I have been to advises to match hardware based on the RMS rating. I realize that if you know what you are doing you can push more and just not turn up the volume high for an extended period of time.

Then you are visiting the wrong websites. Power ratings are marketing departments' way to dumb it down for the masses. And there has been a race to higher and higher numbers, which are not to believed.

As an ex-professional loudspeaker designer, power rating is well down the list of characteristics I consider when designing a system. It really only comes into play when the design is finished and then I literally test it at high power to find the weak point, and actually rate the final power capacity.

You are better served to shop by impedance and sensitivity matching, but even those areas are minefields.

Even better is to purchase a system that is fully designed and with good reviews. But I can imagine that is almost impossible to find one that exactly matches the car's wiring and speaker holes.

Short of all this, build a setup based around the miniDSP unit, similar to [MENTION=15347]ForTehNguyen[/MENTION], which allows you to fine-tune the system easily. Still, a basic acoustic measurement is needed to achieve good results quicker.

 

[floydbanks28]

Then you are visiting the wrong websites. Power ratings are marketing departments' way to dumb it down for the masses. And there has been a race to higher and higher numbers, which are not to believed.

As an ex-professional loudspeaker designer, power rating is well down the list of characteristics I consider when designing a system. It really only comes into play when the design is finished and then I literally test it at high power to find the weak point, and actually rate the final power capacity.

You are better served to shop by impedance and sensitivity matching, but even those areas are minefields.

Even better is to purchase a system that is fully designed and with good reviews. But I can imagine that is almost impossible to find one that exactly matches the car's wiring and speaker holes.

Short of all this, build a setup based around the miniDSP unit, similar to [MENTION=15347]ForTehNguyen[/MENTION], which allows you to fine-tune the system easily. Still, a basic acoustic measurement is needed to achieve good results quicker.

Wow thanks I knew there was more to components than just power rating, but I didn't realize power rating should be way down the list of things you check. This thread has become a wealth of knowledge

 

[floydbanks28]

Ok folks, new diagram time...
This one shows how you would add aftermarket processors and amps by utilizing some connectors from Molex that just plug into the connectors at the factory amp. Racemaster did an awesome job using the 90 degree version of these plugs and enclosing them in a "project" box.

This diagram is pretty generic, so please remember that there are literally hundreds of ways this could be done... although I have shown the center channel speaker, it's just for reference and is not part of the amplified output.

So this is what you mean by bypassing the dsp/factory amp. My question is would it be possible to split the signals going into the molex so that you can add your mono and 4 channel amp and also keep the factory amp running as is. (before the x over) The factory amp cannot take RCA inputs as I understand. I don't want to get rid of my factory speakers, I just want to add some 6.5's running off amps in the doors. If keeping the factory amp running isn't possible, that will mean I'll have to replace all of the speakers. which I guess isn't a bad thing just means a lot more work, and a lot more money.

Also if I choose to run just a mono amp with a sub, can you even use the molex connector, or would you have to use a LOC to maintain the factory speakers.

 

[floydbanks28]

Also if I choose to do a LOC out instead for the sake of keeping my factory undisturbed, will the sync 3 sounds go through the speakers getting this signal? And where would I get my signal for subwoofers, and for full range speakers?

 

[Fenix]

So this is what you mean by bypassing the dsp/factory amp. My question is would it be possible to split the signals going into the molex so that you can add your mono and 4 channel amp and also keep the factory amp running as is. (before the x over) The factory amp cannot take RCA inputs as I understand. I don't want to get rid of my factory speakers, I just want to add some 6.5's running off amps in the doors. If keeping the factory amp running isn't possible, that will mean I'll have to replace all of the speakers. which I guess isn't a bad thing just means a lot more work, and a lot more money.

Also if I choose to run just a mono amp with a sub, can you even use the molex connector, or would you have to use a LOC to maintain the factory speakers.

I don't see why splitting the signal wouldn't work, you'd just need to create your own harness. You could also just not pin the 6.5 up to the factory amp connector and only pin them to your aftermarket amp.

For just a sub you can absolutely use the molex connectors for signal and is the better route than a LOC. In my opinion of course. Check out my thread below where I made a harness to do just this.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81507

 

[floydbanks28]

I don't see why splitting the signal wouldn't work, you'd just need to create your own harness. You could also just not pin the 6.5 up to the factory amp connector and only pin them to your aftermarket amp.

For just a sub you can absolutely use the molex connectors for signal and is the better route than a LOC. In my opinion of course. Check out my thread below where I made a harness to do just this.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81507

Okay thanks, I wasn't sure if splitting the one signal into two would result with 2 weaker signals or something like that. I guess I don't really understand what a low input signal really is.

But yeah my plan is:
-disconnect the factory 6.5's in the door
-Leave all other factory speaker components as is.
-Use a molex to send signal to 2 separate amps.
-1 amp powering subwoofer
-1 amp (2 channel) powering my new much more powerful full range 6.5's in the original factory locations.
- Possibly have a DSP for my new hardware
-Have both amps in locations where adjustments can be made without having to remove interior panels (possibly glovebox, back seat floor with a custom vanity cover to hide it)

 

[floydbanks28]

You guys are saving my life right now. I just have a few more questions

1. When you split the low level from the HU with the molex do you need to re flash the ACM to get a "base level output" like HextallS550 was saying? or is it okay to leave the signal as is?

2. Is it hard to wire speakers to the doors? If so would it be acceptable to retain the factory wiring in the door even though ill be pushing 100W RMS 250 Max (ballpark) through said wires?

3. If I decide to do a full overhaul of all the speakers and get rid of all the factory componets all together, will I retain the sounds from the sync 3 system? ie Bluetooth phone calls, voice control, backup warning system?

 

[floydbanks28]

Then you are visiting the wrong websites. Power ratings are marketing departments' way to dumb it down for the masses. And there has been a race to higher and higher numbers, which are not to believed.

As an ex-professional loudspeaker designer, power rating is well down the list of characteristics I consider when designing a system. It really only comes into play when the design is finished and then I literally test it at high power to find the weak point, and actually rate the final power capacity.

You are better served to shop by impedance and sensitivity matching, but even those areas are minefields.

Even better is to purchase a system that is fully designed and with good reviews. But I can imagine that is almost impossible to find one that exactly matches the car's wiring and speaker holes.

Short of all this, build a setup based around the miniDSP unit, similar to [MENTION=15347]ForTehNguyen[/MENTION], which allows you to fine-tune the system easily. Still, a basic acoustic measurement is needed to achieve good results quicker.

What websites would you recommend???

 

[Fenix]

If you split the signal from the acm you are getting the exact same signal the factory amp is. I don't know if flashing the acm would give you any advantage or not unless you plan to replace all speakers eventually then maybe.

Your plan sounds good to me. I don't see how any sync sounds would be interrupted by simply replacing speaker components.

I have read rewiring the doors is a pain but I have not done it. There should be a speaker wire gage listed in the sticky that you could use to see what the max wattage the factory wiring could safely carry is.

 

[mumbles]

What websites would you recommend???

I always recommend the forums at DIYMA
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/

Scroll down the forums page and you'll find all kinds of categories including a "Help me choose equipment for my car" sub forum.

My suggestion is to take your time in choosing gear... if you rush into it just to get something playing, you most likely will spend lots more than if you did a little research.

 

[HextallS550]

A few PM's about my comments here, people asking what I would do on a budget. So here it is.
Sync 3 flashed with proper ABD using FORScan
miniDSP, hoping they release a cersion for the car with asynchronous USB soon, as it it he 2x4HD doesn't quite cut it with only 4 channels of output
JL Audio Slash amps 300/4 and 500/1 are a classic combo
Hybrid Audio Technologies Clarus components up front
JL or Hybrid sub(s) in sealed box or a transmission line

You have the adjustability you need with the DSP to compensate for the cars interior and the speaker placement, a high quality set of drivers that can play any music type, the look of and functionality of factory components and a system that can grow if need be.

 

[floydbanks28]

A few PM's about my comments here, people asking what I would do on a budget. So here it is.
Sync 3 flashed with proper ABD using FORScan
miniDSP, hoping they release a cersion for the car with asynchronous USB soon, as it it he 2x4HD doesn't quite cut it with only 4 channels of output
JL Audio Slash amps 300/4 and 500/1 are a classic combo
Hybrid Audio Technologies Clarus components up front
JL or Hybrid sub(s) in sealed box or a transmission line

You have the adjustability you need with the DSP to compensate for the cars interior and the speaker placement, a high quality set of drivers that can play any music type, the look of and functionality of factory components and a system that can grow if need be.

Do you have any more information about flashing sync 3 using FORScan? You've brought it up a lot, and it seems to be pretty important to you, what exactly does it change about the output?? You're also implying you would never go without it in these cars, so does it really make a huge difference??

You would have 4 channels with 300 watts each?? If you aren't running rears, what all components would fill this up?? 6.5's component sets that can take 300 watts seems like it would be really expensive, even the $1500 6 piece component systems on crutchfield are only rated at like 150 W

Would you not run an active cross over?? Or does the DSP function as one already??

Thanks for letting me pick your brain,

 

[HextallS550]

You are waaaay too concerned with wattage man. Scott Buwalda's Lexus had 6 JL Audio HD750/1 amplifiers and each amplifier powered one speaker. That's 750 rated watts into voice coils rated to handle 150 W or less. Wattage is a poor way to build.
I guarantee I can build something with less than 175 W TOTAL that sounds better than some of the typical systems I see being built, I know because I've done it. My SVTF had a 1996 Soundstream Picasso & a Class A 10.0. That's 25x4 for mid and mid low and 200x1 (bridged). Wattage is a poor way to build.
Matching speakers to an amplifier using W RMS doesn't take into account quality either. If a big box store has Kenwood or Alpine junk with a an advertised rating of 175 W RMS and Focal advertises a Utopia driver at 150 are you really going to choose the Best Buy speakers over a world class driver? Wattage is a poor way to build.

What you need to do is go out and listen to as many systems as you can. Use DIYMA and network. People love to show off what they have, good or not, you shouldn't have an issue listening to a wide selection of brands and price points.
I would strongly discourage your idea to run 6.5 coax drivers and then keeping factory miss and tweeters. It's a bad idea on multiple levels. Your staging and imaging will suffer, you over complicate the system itself and youre screwing around with what become mismatched drivers. More speakers doesn't equal better sound.
Again, I refer to my SVTF it has 5 speakers total. No tweeters, a single sealed Subwoofer, a HU with DSP and two amplifiers. That's it. I've shown it several times and people who have heard it are shocked that I don't have more in it.
My experience as a test engineer, an installer, an enthusiast has lead me to pursue this stuff since 1996. I'm not rich but I've easily spent enough money in 21 years that I could have bought a GT350 by now if I hadn't wasted it. My advice isn't spend thousands it's to be efficient and calculating when building. I have always had to do more with less. Have patience, have a plan and most important trust your ears AFTER you listen to everything you possibly can.

Sponsored