Soler Engineering Throttle body

[Greg35]

@JAJ : I totally agree; "This is going to be interesting." RE: WOT increased airflow is this claim from Soler. Now if my math is correct, this is only 4.6% effective increase from 87mm to 91mm AT WOT. Hmmm....following.

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[GregO]

Understanding Boundary Layer viscosity reduction can be challenging.

 

[ShatterPoints]

This is going to be interesting. The value they offer is smoother air flow through the throttle at various angles including wide open. That in itself won't change the power production of the engine. If the smoothed and polished TB allows more air at full throttle, then that will, in the same way that a larger TB would.

The question is, how will the ECU respond to the buffed TB? Their webpage shows a lot of GM products they build TB's for, and as far as I know, the GM ECU's work slightly differently than the Ford 2011 and later ECU's. Earlier GM ECU's used a "manifold absolute pressure" ("MAP") sensor to monitor the air pressure inside the intake manifold behind the throttle. If intake airflow increases, then MAP increases, and the ECU pushes more fuel to keep up with the increased airflow. I don't know if GM has abandoned this approach or not. Ford ECU's don't do it this way, though.

In the Ford Coyote (and later) ECU's, the intake manifold pressure is estimated by a handful of tables that translate the physical characteristics of the throttle body into an estimate of MAP at various airflows measured by the MAF. There's no MAP sensor. Changing the physical TB will invalidate the values in the tables - they were determined in the original calibration of the factory engine and TB. These tables are used by the ECU to get the fueling right and to guess how far to open the throttle when the driver changes the pedal position.

Now, I'm certainly not saying it won't work. If the changes are within the "error band" built into the ECU calibration, then the ECU will compensate and nothing unusual will happen. Changes in the airflow at various throttle angles can't produce more power - the ECU matches power production (by controlling total airflow at all times) with the gas pedal position. That's its mission in life. So, if you alter the TB to produce more airflow at a particular throttle opening, the ECU just closes it a bit to get the airflow back where it belongs. And all these adjustments are computed in the ECU up to two full revolutions of the engine ahead of the current moment. The ECU has a graduate degree in prediction, and it's pretty darn good at it.

Where there might be a benefit is at WOT. If there's more airflow at WOT, there's more power and the ECU is just as happy with that situation as the driver is. As I said at the start, this is going to be interesting.

This was my initial reaction as well. The drivability of the Coyote is VERY sensitive to the throttle body's physical properties and correction factors in the ECU. It may be that if you do need to make changes to these tables that you negate the benefits of this new throttle body. The ECU is torque demand driven and so as stated above the ECU tries to provide the requested power based on throttle position + several primary tables + correction factors. Even small values outside the range of correction results in random artifacts in the ECU's ability to predict / anticipate airflow and as a result may show up as strange feedback by way of drivability at small TB %open. Since the closer to WOT the less it matters as the overall size of the TB has not changed and so VE remains the same.

 

[stanglife]

Speaking only from.... a LIFETIME of doing everything from a TB or MAF change (when you're young and poor, you do just those and "TRY" to feel a difference..I was convinced there was a difference! lol)...to stroker engines, pushrod, DOHC 4.6, nut and bolt coyote/boss builds. When you are talking about a single bolt on like this - sure there is a potential for a minimal increase...but bolt-ons are mostly effective as a sum of the total parts aka FBO plus tuning. Saying a single bolt-on like this TB went from not spinning the tires to spinning the tires...is just not realistic. There's only 1 single bolt-on I've ever done to make that kind of difference and it added 2.9l of displacement via pulley.

 

[GTthree50]

Not sure if I missed this, are you running Soler TB standalone or w/Soler Throttle Controller ?

I’m running the TB by itself, no throttle controller installed at this time. Had given a controller consideration but not thinking it’s necessary for my own use, though could still be interesting. The TB has addressed all driveability issues I previously had. So far every aspect of function of the Tab is a marked improvement over the stock TB. I am actively looking for any negatives but so far this thing is just pleasantly surprising.

 

[GregO]

I’m running the TB by itself, no throttle controller installed at this time. Had given a controller consideration but not thinking it’s necessary for my own use, though could still be interesting. The TB has addressed all driveability issues I previously had. So far every aspect of function of the Tab is a marked improvement over the stock TB. I am actively looking for any negatives but so far this thing is just pleasantly surprising.

Actually, I'd expect nothing less from Soler Performance modded TB's.

 

[GTthree50]

Actually, I'd expect nothing less from Soler Performance modded TB's.

Sounds like you have prior experience with their products? I had no expectations prior to bolting it on but it’s been all positive thus far.

 

[m3incorp]

I think I may have been the first one to use this throttle body; conducted the initial testing. The same throttle body is used on the GT350 and the Roush Supercharger kits. I've also used their throttle body on my Corvette Z06. The most noticeable thing on the Corvette was correcting the lag.....it was terrible stock. For the Mustangs, the throttle body is not going to give you any more noticeable power, but it does help with the initial throttle tip-in. I have not tracked with it, but have not had a reason to go back to stock. I would not waste my money on a dyno for just a throttle body, as I wouldn't expect to see an increase in power.

 

[GregO]

Sounds like you have prior experience with their products? I had no expectations prior to bolting it on but it’s been all positive thus far.

The short answer is I have not. The long answer shortened, time spent improving OEM airflow by way of efforts in reducing boundary layer friction.

 

[GTthree50]

The short answer is I have not. The long answer shortened, time spent improving OEM airflow by way of efforts in reducing boundary layer friction.

Nice. One of the things I first noticed about their attention to detail is the dimpling on the butterfly shaft. Details matter.

 

[GregO]

Nice. One of the things I first noticed about their attention to detail is the dimpling on the butterfly shaft. Details matter.

That's a new feature.
There's a guy on the forum here that posted about dimples on a golf ball and air flow some time ago.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Nice. One of the things I first noticed about their attention to detail is the dimpling on the butterfly shaft. Details matter.

You mean that sexy dimpling on the butterfly shaft!!!!

 

[GTthree50]

That's a new feature.
There's a guy on the forum here that posted about dimples on a golf ball and air flow some time ago.

You mean that sexy dimpling on the butterfly shaft!!!!

Yes, the dimpling is a small detail but one that could make a measurable difference to boundary layer airflow. Yes, golf balls have it as an aerodynamic feature and in the bicycle industry Zipp, a composites company in Indianapolis with experience in auto racing produces carbon bike wheels with dimpled surfacing for similar reasons.

 

[K4fxd]

There's a guy on the forum here that posted about dimples on a golf ball and air flow some time ago.

Mythbusters coated a car in clay then put dimples in it like a golf ball and got about 5 mpg better mileage. Even with the added weight of the clay.

 

[GTthree50]

Mythbusters coated a car in clay then put dimples in it like a golf ball and got about 5 mpg better mileage. Even with the added weight of the clay.

That seems pretty damn good, especially considering the dimple pattern they would have used was likely not engineered. Research has indicated that dimple size and number can be tuned to affect performance.

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