Shocks on Magnaride GT

[NoVaGT]

I'm not into drag racing either, but softening the rear makes for more squat and less load transfer beck to the rear tires. It also takes a little longer for more squat to happen than it does for less squat, so you have to look at this on a time scale basis. Where at a tens of millisecond time step level you'd be hitting the tires more softly. Maybe that's OK for the production street tires on normal pavement, but it's leaving something on the table for more serious drag racing where you're trying to knock another tenth off of your 60-ftoot time.

I think you'd soften the rear shocks if you were hitting the tires too hard (shocking them) and wanted to spread the 'hit' out over a slightly longer span of time.

Squat does not cause rearward load transfer. All it shows is that load transfer is happening against a rear suspension that is neither physically rigid (steel rods instead of shocks or springs) nor geometrically fully resistant to squat (100% anti-squat geometry).

This is going to sound picky, but stop thinking in terms of "weight transfer". When people do their thinking in "weight transfer" terms it's really easy to confuse effect (squat) confused with cause (which is actually the load transfer due to acceleration). The only "weight transfer" that could be happening is due to fluid slosh (gas, oil, tranny and axle lube, etc.) and loose cargo sliding rearward.


Norm

Semantics.

If you don't like the words "weight transfer", fine. But tire weight-load is definitely increased on the rear tires during acceleration, just like tire weight-load is increased on, say, the passenger side tires when turning left hard.

If you could have scales measuring weight during hard acceleration, the weight at the rear tires would definitely increase as you came off the line. Just like the weight on the outside tires increases in a turn, as the weight of the inside tires decreases.

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[Norm Peterson]

If you don't like the words "weight transfer", fine. But tire weight-load is definitely increased on the rear tires during acceleration, just like tire weight-load is increased on, say, the passenger side tires when turning left hard.

Total tire load - what I suspect you mean by "weight-load" - is not the same thing as static weight. And because the easy association for squat is an overloaded trunk, people think that weight has to be moving for squat to happen. That thinking is backward. Squat during acceleration is caused by inertial load transfer acting against a non-rigid rear suspension, roughly car weight times CG height divided by wheelbase, times acceleration in g's.

If you could have scales measuring weight during hard acceleration, the weight at the rear tires would definitely increase as you came off the line. Just like the weight on the outside tires increases in a turn, as the weight of the inside tires decreases.

Yes, the scales would show "more weight", but scales can't tell how much of those measured loads is causing squat.

You don't want to accept this explanation, or perhaps I haven't been able to type it up clearly enough, maybe check with somebody who has actual vehicle dynamics on his resume. Like maybe Brian@BMVK.

Then we can maybe get into the time phasing of load transfers resisted geometrically (anti-squat), load transfers resisted by the springs (squat), and load transfers resisted dynamically as the suspension is moving into squat (shocks). They don't happen in phase with each other, and this is going to matter to OP for his situation.


Norm

 

[NoVaGT]

Total tire load - what I suspect you mean by "weight-load" - is not the same thing as static weight. And because the easy association for squat is an overloaded trunk, people think that weight has to be moving for squat to happen. That thinking is backward. Squat during acceleration is caused by inertial load transfer acting against a non-rigid rear suspension, roughly car weight times CG height divided by wheelbase, times acceleration in g's.



Yes, the scales would show "more weight", but scales can't tell how much of those measured loads is causing squat.

You don't want to accept this explanation, or perhaps I haven't been able to type it up clearly enough, maybe check with somebody who has actual vehicle dynamics on his resume. Like maybe Brian@BMVK.

Then we can maybe get into the time phasing of load transfers resisted geometrically (anti-squat), load transfers resisted by the springs (squat), and load transfers resisted dynamically as the suspension is moving into squat (shocks). They don't happen in phase with each other, and this is going to matter to OP for his situation.


Norm

You're attempting to argue semantics. Frankly, I DGAF beyond "load transfer", which does, in essence, happen.

 

[NGOT8R]

youre correct, since Ive already tried those suspension parts. This is the next step. My goal is all straight line based.

My mustang was purchased mid covid, so i took what i could get.

Let us know how the Viking drag shocks work on your setup. I was considering doing the very same thing a few months ago, but was concerned about triggering a light on the dash or reduced performance.

On a different note, how do you like your Ultimate Headers? I like mine, now that I got past some fitment issues with the first set. The second set fits really good.

 

[rabid_josh]

Let us know how the Viking drag shocks work on your setup. I was considering doing the very same thing a few months ago, but was concerned about triggering a light on the dash or reduced performance.

On a different note, how do you like your Ultimate Headers? I like mine, now that I got past some fitment issues with the first set. The second set fits really good.

Ultimates seemed to work good. Technically they're a little too large for a NA setup as we didnt gain a ton of HP with them, BUT we did gain like 30tq with them, next week were going to dyno it now that its on e85. We didnt have a single issue with the headers fitting. Im shocked you did. They were great to deal with and since the shop im at have become a dealer.

Im not sure if its this thread or the other one I started about this, but theres a company called xineering that makes a kit to not trigger the light. So here soon Ill have it all together and installed and we will see what happens.

 

[NGOT8R]

Ultimates seemed to work good. Technically they're a little too large for a NA setup as we didnt gain a ton of HP with them, BUT we did gain like 30tq with them, next week were going to dyno it now that its on e85. We didnt have a single issue with the headers fitting. Im shocked you did. They were great to deal with and since the shop im at have become a dealer.

Yeah, I’m not sure why I encountered the issues I did with Ultimate, but the first set didn’t fit. I couldn’t connect the steering shaft and the passenger side collector was angled up 5/8” too much, to where the mid pipe would make contact with the floorboard. I actually still have the first set. They can be fixed easily by anyone that fabs and welds though.

 

[NotagainV2]

Getting rid of the Mag ride struts and shocks seems insane to me. Change the springs and get a rear subframe lockout kit from Steeda or BMR first.

Magride struts and shocks are the last itmes Id be replacing.

 

[NGOT8R]

Getting rid of the Mag ride struts and shocks seems insane to me. Change the springs and get a rear subframe lockout kit from Steeda or BMR first.

Magride struts and shocks are the last itmes Id be replacing.

I had the owner of a Mustang performance shop in Kansas City, MO tell me that his shop had done a Viking swap on a MR GT and it cut better sixty foot times. I pressed him a little more on how he got around any codes or dash light issues and he couldn’t remember off the top exactly what the workaround was, but he was adamant that his shop had done one.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You're attempting to argue semantics. Frankly, I DGAF beyond "load transfer", which does, in essence, happen.

Neither of us is a drag racer, and this is one of two threads by josh looking for help with his issue, which is specifically a drag racer's problem.

I just happen to understand some of this stuff on an engineering level, which cannot be accurately explained using common-use terminology. Josh needs to look deeper than the mere fact that load transfer happens.


Norm

 

[NoVaGT]

Neither of us is a drag racer, and this is one of two threads by josh looking for help with his issue, which is specifically a drag racer's problem.

I just happen to understand some of this stuff on an engineering level, which cannot be accurately explained using common-use terminology. Josh needs to look deeper than the mere fact that load transfer happens.


Norm

O.k.????? You're discussing this with the wrong person. Please address the OP.

I have 0 interest in drag stuff, I'm just here as an MR owner, and someone that did Steeda's Stop-The-Hop package before. I thought I'd offer up those experiences.

 

[NGOT8R]

I would think that to get the most out of drag shocks, struts would also be in order. I’m no expert, but common sense tells me that the front end of the car will also need to be unloaded, in order to transfer weight to the rear for a good squat or plant, after which the back end should rebound slowly, keeping the rear firmly planted, while the front eventually settles back down as well.

 

[rabid_josh]

I had the owner of a Mustang performance shop in Kansas City, MO tell me that his shop had done a Viking swap on a MR GT and it cut better sixty foot times. I pressed him a little more on how he got around any codes or dash light issues and he couldn’t remember off the top exactly what the workaround was, but he was adamant that his shop had done one.

MR is good but only for so long.


I put in one of these threads I started that a company like called I xineering makes a kit to not get a light

 

[NGOT8R]

MR is good but only for so long.


I put in one of these threads I started that a company like called I xineering makes a kit to not get a light

I’ll be watching to see how well the Vikings xineering components work out for you. Are you changing to Viking drag struts too?

 

[rabid_josh]

I’ll be watching to see how well the Vikings xineering components work out for you. Are you changing to Viking drag struts too?

Viking shocks
Xineering MR rear kit for MR defeat

 

[shogun32]

but theres a company called xineering that makes a kit to not trigger the light.

you want these
https://shockdeletes.com/products/ford-mustang-electronic-shock-height-sim-kit

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