Sequential pattern...for brake lights...why is it that some frown upon its use?

Bikeman315

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Making any "mods" that have a negative effect the safety features of your vehicle is just plain stupid, period. Any "mod" that could have a negative effect on others is dangerous and should never be done. I think brakes come under that heading. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Just MHO. :facepalm:





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i cant tell you how many diode modules ive sold with my old job. when it comes to brake lights though i dont touch them. I have a good friend still paying almost 20 years later for tinting his taillights and a high profile lawyer hit him, used the tail light tint as the excuse of not seeing it and won a huge settlement, luckily its not a ton of money out of every check but itll be a "lifetime" payment the lawyer receives because it was well over a million dollars and the insurance wouldnt pay the claim since he tinted them. When it comes to brake lights i just leave them stock.
This.

It's amazing how stupid people are, to think that messing with the most important safety item on their car is a good idea.
 

Soulja4187

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Would adding a 4th brake light cause any legal issues?
 

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Reap

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No matter what you do or don't do, it's the fool behind you on their cellphone while driving that determines whether the brake lights have any timely effect.
 

Bikeman315

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No matter what you do or don't do, it's the fool behind you on their cellphone while driving that determines whether the brake lights have any timely effect.
So blame the other guy for you screwing around with a safety item on your car. Sorry man, that’s just FUBAR!!
 

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I'm sure Reap wasn't generalizing but point out 'those' people who would not see a truck coming at them armed with death lazers aiming shootig at them no matter what.
 

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Funny, I've never heard any complaints on the subject 'til now.

I have sequencing tails and no one has ever complained about it.

Rear end accidents are caused by following too close or inappropriate speed in relation to the car ahead and often times both.

The 3rd brake light on our cars does not sequence. Therefore any legal argument on X vs. Y effect is negated.

I think we can go back to not mowing over crowds leaving a CnC now.
 

NoVaGT

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Funny, I've never heard any complaints on the subject 'til now.

I have sequencing tails and no one has ever complained about it.

Rear end accidents are caused by following too close or inappropriate speed in relation to the car ahead and often times both.

The 3rd brake light on our cars does not sequence. Therefore any legal argument on X vs. Y effect is negated.

I think we can go back to not mowing over crowds leaving a CnC now.
Actually, I'd bet a lot of money, the vast majority of rear-end accidents are due to drivers paying 0 attention. On their phone, or otherwise fucking around and not paying attention.

Do you mean your brake lights sequence? Your tail lights? Or am I misunderstanding something?
 

Elp_jc

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People might confuse a sequencing taillight (especially if close enough) with turn-signaling, and it doesn't help that Mustangs don't have separate turn-signal lights, so why add confusion and risk an accident for for a stupidity like adding sequencing to the brake lights? It's just stupid to me, but to each his own. In fact, I disabled the sequencing turn-signals on my Bullitt; it's just a stupid gimmick IMO, especially since the fronts are not.
 

cmxPPL219

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This thread is a great discussion.
Like many here, I've done a lot of highway driving over many years of driving, and have noticed A LOT about how lights are paramount, in the way they operate and how to warn other road users of where you're going, your intentions, etc.

A lot of folks here have made great points, I'll add a few from my perspective:

1. The tinting of rear tail lights (and for that matter headlights and any driving light) should not be allowed, simply for safety.
-Depending on your direction of travel, east to west and west to east - Sun rises in the east and sets in the west obviously - if you are on an east-west route, during rush hour morning and late afternoon rush hour, on very sunny day, if the sun is shining directly on the rear of vehicles, this can compound the issue if folks tint their tail lights, thereby decreasing reaction times (of course, we should all be keeping a safe distance.)

-It would also be nice if we had a rear fog light.
In many euro countries, they have this, where one bulb or element of a tail light housing is lit completely bright, and offset to one side, so as not to confuse as a brake light. It is on as soon as fog lights are turned on. This is useful in foggy conditions to see the car in front of you.

-We could also use increasing-intensity brake light (as mentioned by someone else, and BMW and Mercedes actually use this on many modern models from what I've seen) might be a good idea to bring these in. A flashing 4th brake light, that others have also mentioned, (which is similar to an F1 rainlight) that only illuminates during hard pedal application, would also be useful. (if it happens with every brake application, it could get tiresome to other drivers behind you.)

2. I notice that a lot of drivers, including those of us with many years of experience, begin to rely on tail lights/brake lights alone, when judging your own speed and when to come to a stop, as opposed to using the lights AND the other vehicle's position and speed. We should be using both.
As a result, you'll notice that when a car in front of you has non-working brake lights (or even one side has burned out) you see that your reaction time to begin the deceleration process is delayed, unless you are really paying attention (which we all should.)

3. On manual transmission cars, we should always be on the brake pedal, so as to illuminate the rear brake lights. If we want to give our foot a rest, pull the handbrake to hold the car while stopped, but remain enough pressure on the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights. Again, this is in an effort to prevent someone from slamming into you at stop light, if they just are the type to only pay attention to brake lights.
-Also, if you're at a stop light, or even coming to a stop, and you see the person behind you is still fast, literally just pump your brakes. Pump them lightly in a few short successions. This, in an effort to warn the driver.
-I've seen many pics of cars in salvage yards that have rear-end hit, and I look to see the inside, it's a manual trans.

4. When on the highway, travelling at speed, and traffic is coming to a stop very quick, due to an accident or construction, flip your hazards on. I know a lot of professional long haul truckers do this, and so do I. It helps to get the attention of those behind you to stop. It works. As an alternate, also like above, pump your brakes quick and lightly, to get the attention of folks.

5. LED lights have largely solved this, due to the instant on off, on off effect. However, the frequency of flashes on off, on off, should increase, especially if they are the hazard lights/flashers.
Turn signal lights as well.
-This would be very helpful, in scenarios where you are trying to change lanes into a lane, where the lane beside this target lane has a car in it. Travelling at 60mph-80mph, the slow signal frequencies are useless, at highway speeds, and you are trying to make the maneuver quickly. This, of course, relies on other folks looking around and USING their indicator signals. How many times have I been trying to perform this exact scenario, and I'm almost practically centered in the lane, before that car I mentioned above, now changes lanes into me. And, because I'm the one paying attention, I move out of the lane to avoid a collision. And the guy is then looking at me as if I'm in the wrong here.

6. Specific to the mustang, one thing I liked about the 18+ refresh is the upgraded LED front turn signal indicators. They are nice and bright. However, the frequency of flashes is still low, due to the below:
I used to have a 2017, and the previous incandescent bulb design was just not bright enough, especially in certain sunlight conditions. Ontop of that, due to the sequential turn signal for the rear lights, because the front doesn't have this feature, they need to delay the flash of the front indicator, and so, especially in the case of the highway lane change scenario I mentioned above, there's just not enough time in some situations for other drivers to see, since the difference of intensity between flash and steady state on, is not that much, in the 15-17 (or GT350 and current GT500).
 
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cmxPPL219

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This thread is a great discussion.
Like many here, I've done a lot of highway driving over many years of driving, and have noticed A LOT about how lights are paramount, in the way they operate and how to warn other road users of where you're going, your intentions, etc.

A lot of folks here have made great points, I'll add a few from my perspective:

1. The tinting of rear tail lights (and for that matter headlights and any driving light) should not be allowed, simply for safety.
-Depending on your direction of travel, east to west and west to east - Sun rises in the east and sets in the west obviously - if you are on an east-west route, during rush hour morning and late afternoon rush hour, on very sunny day, if the sun is shining directly on the rear of vehicles, this can compound the issue if folks tint their tail lights, thereby decreasing reaction times (of course, we should all be keeping a safe distance.)

-It would also be nice if we had a rear fog light.
In many euro countries, they have this, where one bulb or element of a tail light housing is lit completely bright, and offset to one side, so as not to confuse as a brake light. It is on as soon as fog lights are turned on. This is useful in foggy conditions to see the car in front of you.

-We could also use increasing-intensity brake light (as mentioned by someone else, and BMW and Mercedes actually use this on many modern models from what I've seen) might be a good idea to bring these in. A flashing 4th brake light, that others have also mentioned, (which is similar to an F1 rainlight) that only illuminates during hard pedal application, would also be useful. (if it happens with every brake application, it could get tiresome to other drivers behind you.)

2. I notice that a lot of drivers, including those of us with many years of experience, begin to rely on tail lights/brake lights alone, when judging your own speed and when to come to a stop, as opposed to using the lights AND the other vehicle's position and speed. We should be using both.
As a result, you'll notice that when a car in front of you has non-working brake lights (or even one side has burned out) you see that your reaction time to begin the deceleration process is delayed, unless you are really paying attention (which we all should.)

3. On manual transmission cars, we should always be on the brake pedal, so as to illuminate the rear brake lights. If we want to give our foot a rest, pull the handbrake to hold the car while stopped, but remain enough pressure on the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights. Again, this is in an effort to prevent someone from slamming into you at stop light, if they just are the type to only pay attention to brake lights.
-Also, if you're at a stop light, or even coming to a stop, and you see the person behind you is still fast, literally just pump your brakes. Pump them lightly in a few short successions. This, in an effort to warn the driver.
-I've seen many pics of cars in salvage yards that have rear-end hit, and I look to see the inside, it's a manual trans.

4. When on the highway, travelling at speed, and traffic is coming to a stop very quick, due to an accident or construction, flip your hazards on. I know a lot of professional long haul truckers do this, and so do I. It helps to get the attention of those behind you to stop. It works. As an alternate, also like above, pump your brakes quick and lightly, to get the attention of folks.

5. LED lights have largely solved this, due to the instant on off, on off effect. However, the frequency of flashes on off, on off, should increase, especially if they are the hazard lights/flashers.
Turn signal lights as well.
-This would be very helpful, in scenarios where you are trying to change lanes into a lane, where the lane beside this target lane has a car in it. Travelling at 60mph-80mph, the slow signal frequencies are useless, at highway speeds, and you are trying to make the maneuver quickly. This, of course, relies on other folks looking around and USING their indicator signals. How many times have I been trying to perform this exact scenario, and I'm almost practically centered in the lane, before that car I mentioned above, now changes lanes into me. And, because I'm the one paying attention, I move out of the lane to avoid a collision. And the guy is then looking at me as if I'm in the wrong here.

6. Specific to the mustang, one thing I liked about the 18+ refresh is the upgraded LED front turn signal indicators. They are nice and bright. However, the frequency of flashes is still low, due to the below:
I used to have a 2017, and the previous incancesent bulb design was just not bright enough, especially in certain sunlight conditions. Ontop of that, due to the sequential turn signal for the rear lights, because the front doesnt have this feature, they need to delay the flash of the front indicator, and so, especially in the case of the highway lane change scenario I mentioned above, there's just not enough time in some situations for other drivers to see, since the difference of intensity between flash and steady state on, is not that much, in the 15-17 (or GT350 and current GT500).
I'd just add that a lot of us on here are great drivers, and although we may not need them, a lot these measures would help the rest out there, to protect us from them.

The previous weekend while taking my Mustang out for a drive, was driving along with a Type R in traffic. We happened to be going the same direction for a while. He seemed to be a good driver, and didn't make any sudden stops, as traffic got heavy. Shortly after he got rear ended by some SUV.
 

TheGame1190

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IM not sure if you are countering what I said or agreeing with it LOL. Seems you are agreeing.. Ill go with that.
LOL, yes I am agreeing with you. If people want to preach about safety, I don't see a problem with it, that is a different discussion. It seems legally, at least in my state, it is as if the Mustang has seven tail lamps as each bar meets the requirement on its own. It would be interesting to see how many cars have a tail lamp that is dimmer and smaller than a single bar.
 

Bikeman315

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LOL, yes I am agreeing with you. If people want to preach about safety, I don't see a problem with it, that is a different discussion. It seems legally, at least in my state, it is as if the Mustang has seven tail lamps as each bar meets the requirement on its own. It would be interesting to see how many cars have a tail lamp that is dimmer and smaller than a single bar.
It's not the number or the brightness. It's the movement. People are conditioned to see a brake light either on or off, not moving. Not everyone out there is an expert driver like the folks on this forum. Just the fact that it could cause an accident is reason enough not to do it.
 

TheGame1190

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Car companies seem to think blinking lights mean more stopping not less.

BMW Brake Force Display (BFD) - Are they legal?

Again though, we are not even talking about the lights flashing. Just the 1/20th of a second between the innermost and outermost lights illuminating.
 

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