Schroth's Quick Fit

[aleccolin]

Hans vs no Hans video is brutal to watch but should be sobering for those running 4,5,6 point harnesses and no Hans.

+1 yeah what got me is how seemingly low speed the crash was. It’s like the crash that killed Dale Earnhardt, didn’t look like much from the outside, but all it takes is one at just the wrong angle.

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[Copperhead73]

+1 yeah what got me is how seemingly low speed the crash was. It’s like the crash that killed Dale Earnhardt, didn’t look like much from the outside, but all it takes is one at just the wrong angle.

He had his HANS on wrong, though. Bill Simpson told him not long before the crash that he was wearing it incorrectly and that it would get him killed. They didn't call him "Ironhead" for nothing.

 

[The Chairman]

He had his HANS on wrong, though. Bill Simpson told him not long before the crash that he was wearing it incorrectly and that it would get him killed. They didn't call him "Ironhead" for nothing.

Earnhardt wasn’t wearing a HANS at all. Bill Simpson’s complaint was that even his regular harness wasn’t installed correctly.
I have a copy of the final report issued by NASCAR fully detailing the incident and their re-creation. It’s a huge file and is available here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/210166176/Earnhardt-Crash-Report

 

[Copperhead73]

Earnhardt wasn’t wearing a HANS at all. Bill Simpson’s complaint was that even his regular harness wasn’t installed correctly.
I have a copy of the final report issued by NASCAR fully detailing the incident and their re-creation. It’s a huge file and is available here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/210166176/Earnhardt-Crash-Report

Thanks for the correction! I remember now he didn't wear the HANS because it was uncomfortable.

 

[1 old racer]

Back in the early 2000's I had, what I hope to be my last track incident. I Had a roll bar, 5 point harness, and I was wearing a Hans sport 2 neck brace. I got tagged by someone that came across the track nailing me in the right rear side which cause me to loose control of my car and I hit a k-rail in the 1;00 position. The impact stretch the left side shoulder harness and burned a groove in the Hans device. It also bent the harness bar of my roll bar. The impact did cause me to black out for a min. and they did have to help me out of the car and gave me a ride me to the hospital for a check up. The car was gone just like that but I was not. I donated the Hans device back to the mfg. for research as well as the 5 point harness. It happened so fast I didnt even get chance to react. Wear them, they have a lot of lower cost systems now, even the type that can be worn with std. seat belts.

 

[16Kobra]

Back in the early 2000's I had, what I hope to be my last track incident. I Had a roll bar, 5 point harness, and I was wearing a Hans sport 2 neck brace. I got tagged by someone that came across the track nailing me in the right rear side which cause me to loose control of my car and I hit a k-rail in the 1;00 position. The impact stretch the left side shoulder harness and burned a groove in the Hans device. It also bent the harness bar of my roll bar. The impact did cause me to black out for a min. and they did have to help me out of the car and gave me a ride me to the hospital for a check up. The car was gone just like that but I was not. I donated the Hans device back to the mfg. for research as well as the 5 point harness. It happened so fast I didnt even get chance to react. Wear them, they have a lot of lower cost systems now, even the type that can be worn with std. seat belts.

Thanks for your story.

I am an older person (56 years old) who recently got into tracking but have mud raced and followed motorsports for many years.

Recently, I attended a HPDE event in S. Fl. The operator of the event asked if I had a harness (had schroth quick fit) in my GT350. My reply was yes. He then asked if I had a Hans and I stated no. He would not let me run my harness without the Hans. We had a long discussion about it and he kept saying he was sorry for the rule. I told him it was ok as I want to be safe. I did not run as hard at the track with just the seatbelt as I would have with the harness.

Now that I have the GT350R and purchased the rollbar, I am looking at harnesses and Hans devices.

 

[aleccolin]

Yeah I think the idea of no harness without a HANS is because the harness isn't going to allow as much energy dissipation as the OE belt, so the chance for a neck injury would be higher.

Personally, I have a big ass heavy head with a big helmet to suit, and am therefore more likely to get a neck injury just due to simple physics. I'm getting an SHR Flex and the belts are to support using that more than for performance.

 

[16Kobra]

Yeah I think the idea of no harness without a HANS is because the harness isn't going to allow as much energy dissipation as the OE belt, so the chance for a neck injury would be higher.

Personally, I have a big ass heavy head with a big helmet to suit, and am therefore more likely to get a neck injury just due to simple physics. I'm getting an SHR Flex and the belts are to support using that more than for performance.

A friend was telling me about a Necksgen. About the same price.

 

[aleccolin]

This discussion reminds me of when Cale went off due to brake failure in his S2000 at Summit Point back in 2008. Again, similar sort of impact to what killed Dale Earnhardt with similar injury. Very likely a HANS & harness would have made that crash survivable.

 

[aleccolin]

A friend was telling me about a Necksgen. About the same price.

Good find, bit different style, but that could work too. I wonder about the lack of front yokes that extend down the chest though. I really like their quick release attachment hardware.

https://www.necksgen.com/head-and-neck-restraints

 

[HeelToeHero]

Hans vs no Hans video is brutal to watch but should be sobering for those running 4,5,6 point harnesses and no Hans.

Though the quick fit is designed for factory cars. That means airbags. Also, the webbing gives on the one side such that it behaves more like a 3 point in a crash. Comparing a fixed harness to the quick fit isn't an apples to apples comparison.
I can't see the quick fit being any worse than factory 3 point belts in a factory car with factory seats and airbags.

 

[fatbillybob]

Recently, I attended a HPDE event in S. Fl. The operator of the event asked if I had a harness (had schroth quick fit) in my GT350. My reply was yes. He then asked if I had a Hans and I stated no. He would not let me run my harness without the Hans. We had a long discussion about it and he kept saying he was sorry for the rule.

In the old days belts were nylon and stretched more. You had some ridedown and there was less but still BSF (basilar skull fracture the dale ernhardt killer). At the time quality belts went to polyester the thinking of the day was increasing driver retention. Poly stretched less and there was a rise in BSF. Interestingly NACAR drivers of the day hit their heads on the steering wheel in those period cockpits and that prevent BSF. In came HANS and a slow marriage of hans to harness. There were several competitors and make shift devices for us amateurs unable to purchase the few HANS devices. The wright device a series of straps and the ISSAC that looked like hood struts on your helmet. Retention is the name of the game. We see it in streetcars too with ballistic tensioners and smart airbags as examples. Today need the HANS (or other NHR) with current harness and cockpit designs.

I think full containment seats are the only way to go but if you can't consider a HNR with some lateral protection. HANS function is greatly enhanced by seat containment. So if you really want best performance with HANS get a seat that works with it or do what others have done to modify for containment like radical SR3's head surrounds or similar butler built head surrounds on spec racer fords.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I think full containment seats are the only way to go but if you can't consider a HNR with some lateral protection. HANS function is greatly enhanced by seat containment. So if you really want best performance with HANS get a seat that works with it or do what others have done to modify for containment like radical SR3's head surrounds or similar butler built head surrounds on spec racer fords.

So this brings up a question I’ve been pondering recently. Is there any way to create lateral head containment for the track in a street driven car without creating an unsafe condition on the street? From my understanding halo seats are very unsafe without a helmet, regardless of the amount of padding. Any clever alternatives?

 

[fatbillybob]

So this brings up a question I’ve been pondering recently. Is there any way to create lateral head containment for the track in a street driven car without creating an unsafe condition on the street? From my understanding halo seats are very unsafe without a helmet, regardless of the amount of padding. Any clever alternatives?

Dual use is the single hardest thing to do. The quickfit uses the stock airbag. That's a huge win! Most of the time you alter stuff and make it less safe or unknown like you posted about above. If I was doing dual use I would put in a 4pt rollover hoop with elements that inserted into pockets on the 4pt. This way I could use a stock seat or not containment seat and trackside slide in elements to build an instant containment seat. It is still a compromise and many claim a 4pt on a car is danger to your head. Joe marko safety guru at HMS motorsports has posted on this red herring. I do not beleive a padded 4pt bar is any less safe for you unhelmeted head than a tall guy vs short guy hitting his head on the elements inside any car. That's why the institute for hwy safety head criteria are always lower in a convertible...less stuff to hit but that does not mean a convertible is safer. There are other problems with convertibles. Safety is a system and safety is a moving target and crashes are multi-dimensional. It is a very complex topic.

When I started racing my first cage was a bolt in. My second I welded had X bars. My 3rd I welded has NASCAR bars to the door skin. My 4th mustang has minimnal NASCAR bars with impaxx foam sandwiched between the stock door intrusion bar and my intrusion plate welded on the NASCAR bars. We change as times change. Here is a pic of my 2019 GT mid-build . Note the NASCAR bars supported by a sill tube.

 

[SVO MkII]

I just happened upon this thread and thought I'd toss out another safety option for those running stock seat belts; the Simpson Hybrid. The photo below is the rear view.

I had a '72 911 with racing seats, 5 point harnesses, and a harness bar. I wore a traditional HANS in this car for HPDE, about 12 years. When I started using my daily drivers for HPDE (such as the Mustang), I was uncomfortable not having some sort of head and neck restraint device on. I found the Simpson Hybrid and absolutely love it. It is not dependent on racing harnesses to stay in place. There is a rib that extends halfway down your back, and the whole thing is secured to your body. So even if you were to somehow fall out of your seat belts, your head will still be limited in extension from your upper spine by the tethers. Just another option if you aren't ready for racing harnesses/seats, etc.

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