Schroth's Quick Fit

Discussion in 'Road Course, Track, Autocross, HPDE' started by 1 old racer, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Well-Known Member

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    An S550 will still hit the wall at 150mph and not care if you are racing or just doing HPDE.
    Physics wins KE=MV^2

    SCCA may allow something for any number of reasons that may or may not include safety.

    Who's knocking? I'm saying while the 4pt may give your body more control that "comfort" does not inherently make you safer from injury.

    Just like suspension is a system so is safety.
     
  2. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    You're likely dead either way in that case without a full cage, 6 pt and HANS. Even with all that, chances are not good. People know the risks when they go onto a racetrack. If you're booking it 10/10 the whole lap, every lap during HPDE, you should invest in additional safety equipment. Most do.

    The added control someone can get from devices like the quickfit is almost certainly likely to keep them safer by staying out of a crash in HPDE. It's of course not a certainty, but attention and energy paid to the track and car instead of holding oneself in place can only help. It's no worse than a 3 pt for safety.
     
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  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think there are any certainties. I think that a 4 pt that comfortably allows you to drive faster while offering no more protection than 3 pt is arguably less safe because you can go faster with no more protection. We have to remember what a 4pt does. It simulates a 3pt by having a webbing sew rip on impact to prevent submarine inherent in 4pt. Design. What could be safer is a 5th point with proven Hans benefit. We don’t see bsf with 3pts so does Hans with 4pt Asm really offer more protection or psychological protection?

    the other issue is too many think of the 1 dimensional crash. Hans is the 800lb gorilla because it was co-developed in the monocoque chassis and the simulated Monocoque in the full containment NASCAR seat. Crashes are more than 1 direction you ping pong off stuff. Without containment we have higher frequency of loss of Hans retention and that is the end of the core of your safety system. So in the hpde setting you have 4 pt acting like 3 with a Hans and no containment and no testing, and no data...absolutely you could be worse off. I’m not saying you are. I’m just saying I’d really be looking into this. Hans offers almost no lateral protection. This is ignored by Hans. The reason is because Hans is designed to be part of a complete safety system not the guy who sticks a plastic race seat in his car then goes online to ask how to mount his harness.

    I think that most would agree a 5pt is more likely to be safer than 4pt. There is probably a similar argument of why people like 4asm over stock 3pt. Did you know that there is no longer an FIA legal 5pt. Now it is 6 or better. And so my original post just use a more proven design the 6pt parachute because that’s pretty easy to adapt to a street car with a stock seat and no sub hole.

    people can choose whatever makes sense for them. With some research it can be quite eye opening.
     
  4. The Chairman

    The Chairman Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that using a 6pt system is best, most of us are not likely to cut a hole in our nice seats to properly mount the lower belt buckle for HPDEs.
    I have a Sparco race seat in one of my cars that has the slot for the belt. The 6pt system I have in that car works fine. And I wish these nice Recaros had the slot precut. That would be ideal.
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Well-Known Member

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    A 6pt is best only if well executed. You do not have to cut a hole in your seat but a dedicated subhole is "considered" best. Google 6 pt parchute or or climber style. In gross terms you use something like a harness bar for the shoulders, rear anchorbar under the rear seat bolts to hole the lab belt and the subs. You sit on the 6pt and rig the 6pt like a climber's or parachutest's harness. It is still a compromise but I would do that before I did a 4pt ASM. Also that ASM with long belt path in the photo above just allows for more belt stretch meaning less overall containment. The name of the game is containment. This is why a NASCAR cockpit and single seater monocoque look the way they do.

    Like you I have been on track for decades. I have seen exponentially more crashes and more serious racing than HPDE. But I have seen much more physical injury in HPDE than racing. That is a direct result of the difficulty of building a dual use safety system. In racing it seems that after crashes only money stops clubracers from racing. Injury stops a lot of HPDE guys from ever doing it again. I have been rolled over like a turtle once and had the backend of my racecar taken off twice. Any of the three would have been serious injury in a streetcar. Full containment in fully caged racecar was a walk away event with zero injury. I've been hurt worse hitting my bedframe in bare feet in the middle of the night.
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Well-Known Member

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    For some ideas:

    I did this a long time ago to a vette but the same kind of thing can be done with the s550. This is a parachute 6pt with angle iron drilled for anchors and then itself anchored by the rear seat anchors. I needed something quick for a 1st track weekend in that car. No holes drilled in car. harness bar attached to the shoulder belt anchors and I repositioned the shoulder belt so I could still use it. I welded that out of 120 wall DOM tubing in about an hour. If that was a permanent install I would have welded a 1" DOM down tube to the angle iron and a similar 1" bar to the passenger outside rear seat anchor and build a defacto harness bar truss. The setup would then be much more robust. Joe Marko is the guro of safety at HMS motorsports supporting many NASCAR teams. He has written on a number of occasions that the harness bar and rollover crush your spine myth is just that a myth. But like many other things "dual use" there are anecdotes, little data, and lots of opinions. YMMV




    P1010635.JPG P1010635.JPG


    P1010632.JPG P1010634.JPG
     
  7. Flyhalf

    Flyhalf Well-Known Member

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    I regularly track my car 2018mwith the quickfit. I bouth a 2017 buckle for the back. And I ve added to the 2018buckle :)
    Also fyi
    The quickfit pro can become a 5point. They sell a additional belt for the 5th point. I'm considering buying it cause the quickfit tends to stay a little higher on the belly when i tighten the strips. IMG_20190701_083902_033.jpg
     
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  8. Dana Pants

    Dana Pants Well-Known Member

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    How did you attach the outer front anchor point? Pic?
     
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  9. Flyhalf

    Flyhalf Well-Known Member

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    I've used this video.
    Very simple. But you need to trim the plastic a little
     
  10. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    For whatever reason, I didn't have to trim anything for mine. Works great.
     
  11. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you have Torx50 handy. I was running to the store to get it with panels off...
     
  12. Flyhalf

    Flyhalf Well-Known Member

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    Yes T50. Remove the seat in case you want extra space and the side bolt.
    For the back regular wrench.
    Yes you can do without trimmiming but I didn't like the angle that was there. Also didn't wamt to risk a "cut with the panel. Probably an overkilled but honestly you don't even notice it.
     
  13. PoppinJ

    PoppinJ Well-Known Member

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    #28 PoppinJ, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    Ive learned a lot reading through all this. I may start my own thread as Ive decided to spend a couple of grand on safety, but as has been mentioned here it would suck to throw a bunch of parts in, spend the time and money and not be any safer. For instance I didn't really understand the 4 point ASM and how it behaved, there are airbags in the seats that have to be considered if seats are replaced, track vs street driving as Im not going to be wearing a HANS on the street. What abut a passenger if I replace one seat and have to disable the side airbags... ect. Just things Im considering.

    2018 GT PP non Recaro (leather seats)
    Goal: HANS, 4 point (or 5 or 6), racing seat. New Helmet.
    70/30 track street. Roll cage not currently an option. Also need to put wheels in back seat traveling to the track like I do now.
    Before I get too deep into this, is it possible to have a 4 point or greater harness without having a roll cage?
     
  14. Flyhalf

    Flyhalf Well-Known Member

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    Yes. This is what I have in my 2018.
    I put a sparco seat on driver side.
    I also bring tires in the car (3 in the back seats and 1 in the trunk) although i got a car that allow me to tow in case of long journey.
    No rollcage (yet..)
    I kept the 3 point (4 point ASM ) does not interfere. I use the 3 point for normal driving.
    Feel free to PM Anytime
     
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  15. PoppinJ

    PoppinJ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man. This is probably the route I'm going for now. Im slowly turning the car into a dedicated track car but Im just not there yet. I wish like crazy I would have just opted for Recaros when I bought the car. Oh well. I've read up on and watched multiple videos on the 4 point ASM. Video of it in action here

    It looks to hold the body better than the stock 3 point during impact, and if I run the quickfit pro I can also run a Hans device. In the video the dummys heads are flopping all over the place with both the 3 point and the 4 point ASM.

    Im more nervous about replacing the seat though. There are side airbags on those incorporated into OEM saftey that would be removed if I replaced the seat. Im tall at 6'4 and having a hard time finding a seat anyways. What Sparco did you go with? I looked at your youtube channel but its all cockpit out.

    Im worried that if you replace the OEM seat with a fixed back bucket racing seat that you wont be able to use the OEM 3 point belt. Is that not the case?
     
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