SCCA CAM-C Thread

[SteveW]

I was already a week or two into my order else I would have looked at this one. Dang!

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[jdub.csu]

For those running 315 rivals for Cam-C. Can this tire hold up to 30 minute track sessions? Last year everyone in the midwest was running this tire but I do more HPDE driving than autocross. Want to get a tire on my 18x11's that can do both. Was leaning in the direction of the Hankook RS4. There 27" tall which is nice but leaving a little on the table because they are only 295 wide.

the rs4 will hold up better on the track than the rivals by a wide margin

run some hoosiers for track

 

[boardkat]

for anybody interested, all future updates on my build will be posted here:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99038

hope to see a bunch of familiar faces this season at the various national events! here's my schedule this season:

fontana pro solo
crows landing national tour
crows landing pro solo
toledo pro solo
packwood national tour
packwood pro solo
cam invitational
solo nationals

 

[SteveW]

Time to revive this thread.

Lately been trying out a radical for Mustangs setup: RSB disconnected. I was running on 1440 lb 5.5" rear springs and have gone from Steeda bar on soft to GTPP bar to V6 bar and now bar disconnected with 1600 lb 2.25" springs. I really like how the car is handling.

Here it is coming off a turn-around at WOT:

 

[jdub.csu]

No rear bar that is interesting. I plan to play around with a lot of different setups this winter offseason

 

[NightmareMoon]

I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead because I figure we're going to see more S550 cars moving to CAM-C now that STP is dead.

I for one am making the switch this winter from FS to CAM-C. F-Street was fun for 3 years, but after 5 sets RE71Rs on too-narrow stock FS wheels, I think the car will be more enjoyable in a more aggressive CAM-C build.

Not going going to be prepped to the extreme like Boardkat and Rexpelagi, but slowly I could get there. I'm interested in learning to drive a stiffer car well, and not too worried about being able to place as high in the local pro class as I was able to do with the FS setup.

Mods planned or in progress:

1. APEX SM-10 19x11 wheels - While not 12 or 13" wide, these should allow the common 305 tires to work well. Rival-S in 19" sizes?
2. Steeda Dual Rate Ultimate Handling Springs - car is a DD and these seems like a good step up from the stock PP springs without going to >$4k coilovers and extreme non-daily driveable springs. Sounds like the 0.75" drop is a good balance for street and track. They'll be paired with my existing Koni yellows until those give up the ghost. Considering I've already replaced one busted rear shock, that might not take long.
3. Camber plates (finally) and un-slotting of the FS camber mods for more reliable camber with less slipping. Planning on running ~2.75 degrees front and 2 degrees rear.
4. Bumpsteer and lowering geometry correction with Steeda parts
5. LCA bearings and Ford Performance toe knuckle bearing to stabilize the rear and get power down more predictably. After 3 years of FS and some track time and my stock LCA rubber bushings were torn.
6. Swaybars - BMR front and I'm going to stick with the Strano rear bar for now.

Future Mods (2019?)

1. OS Giken diff looks interesting.
2. Intake and a NA tune for higher RPM and a little power.
3. Brake cooling ducts (primarily for track days and looks)

 

[BmacIL]

I'm resurrecting this thread from the dead because I figure we're going to see more S550 cars moving to CAM-C now that STP is dead.

I for one am making the switch this winter from FS to CAM-C. F-Street was fun for 3 years, but after 5 sets RE71Rs on too-narrow stock FS wheels, I think the car will be more enjoyable in a more aggressive CAM-C build.

Not going going to be prepped to the extreme like Boardkat and Rexpelagi, but slowly I could get there. I'm interested in learning to drive a stiffer car well, and not too worried about being able to place as high in the local pro class as I was able to do with the FS setup.

Mods planned or in progress:

1. APEX SM-10 19x11 wheels - While not 12 or 13" wide, these should allow the common 305 tires to work well. Rival-S in 19" sizes?
2. Steeda Dual Rate Ultimate Handling Springs - car is a DD and these seems like a good step up from the stock PP springs without going to >$4k coilovers and extreme non-daily driveable springs. Sounds like the 0.75" drop is a good balance for street and track. They'll be paired with my existing Koni yellows until those give up the ghost. Considering I've already replaced one busted rear shock, that might not take long.
3. Camber plates (finally) and un-slotting of the FS camber mods for more reliable camber with less slipping. Planning on running ~2.75 degrees front and 2 degrees rear.
4. Bumpsteer and lowering geometry correction with Steeda parts
5. LCA bearings and Ford Performance toe knuckle bearing to stabilize the rear and get power down more predictably. After 3 years of FS and some track time and my stock LCA rubber bushings were torn.
6. Swaybars - BMR front and I'm going to stick with the Strano rear bar for now.

Future Mods (2019?)

1. OS Giken diff looks interesting.
2. Intake and a NA tune for higher RPM and a little power.
3. Brake cooling ducts (primarily for track days and looks)

The items in bold are what I'll be looking to jump into next year, too. Already have the one underlined. I'll be sticking with my square 19x9.5 setup for this coming year, but plan for the 19x11 square the following year.

 

[NightmareMoon]

The items in bold are what I'll be looking to jump into next year, too. Already have the one underlined. I'll be sticking with my square 19x9.5 setup for this coming year, but plan for the 19x11 square the following year.

I've run those swaybars for a while at track events, and I really dig how the car would handle with the front swaybar set on soft and the rear bar on medium. I felt like it was a great swaybar setup for the stock springs and Konis. Going to Medium on the front bar and full stiff on the Strano bar felt like too much to me.

I did a short couple of track sessions with the springs, shocks, sways, camber plates, and geo correction stuff, just with my street MP4S tires on 10" wheels and the car felt really good. I can't really say how much the bumpsteer and front control arm helped versus just lowering the car with the springs, but it felt and drove very much like a factory car, everything behaved predictably and as you would expect it to. I drove a buddy's STP prepped S197 and just hated how the steering felt. I had to dial a lot more steering to get the car to turn, and I wonder if that was due to the live axle or uncorrected geometry for the lowering.

Oh, I also got the Vorshlag S550 Strut tower jig to open up the strut towers with a hole saw and did that to the car. Metal shavings go everywhere, but you do get a ton more camber available before the shocks hit the edge of the holes.

 

[SteveW]

I'm going to try the dual rate springs in the rear over the off-season. Too many of yous on this site are raving about them to not try especially, given the price right now. I'm going to stick with the 500 lb front springs or even try higher if I get new shocks next year, though.

I think the most important thing for someone going from FS to CAMC is to get 2nd gear up towards 70 mph. If you take a 15-17 GTPP and go down to 18" wheels without addressing top of 2nd you will lose whole seconds of time being stuck between 2nd and 3rd gears. I went to 3.55s and back to 19" wheels in 2018 with a Power Pack 3 and that worked alright where I run.

I have two CAMC seasons and prior to that one in STP under my belt now and one thing I've learned is how much I have to learn about building one of these cars.

My takeaways this year are:

- 500 lb from softer front springs is when I felt my car started 'working' and staying flat.
- Get a tire pyrometer and use it. Spray tires if they get up over 120 degs and it may be that you just have to spray one tire.
- Tired of small, bumpy lots and tight courses!
- I don't think the Roush/KW shocks are going to cut it anymore. Not that they really did anyway.
- I have no idea what a good spring rate and bar combo is for the rear. I plan to cruise around over the winter with the dual rates and see what that feels like after using 1600 lb springs the last half of the season.
- I instructed a couple newbies early this year and drove their cars. I also did a few runs in my old ACR Neon with an ST setup in it. OMG, those little cars were so much easier to drive than this overpowered, big, heavy muscle car. But that's why it is so much fun and lovin the challenge.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Well whoops.. Turns out heating up an aluminum control arm to get a non-cooperative LCA bearing to seat is a real bad idea. The bushing pocket will open up alright, but it will become loose and no longer hold the bearing, and yup, you probably destroyed the temper on the aluminum part.

We got 3/4 bearings pressed in but now I need a new right side control arm . As far as lessons go, that one wasn’t too expensive.

 

[DickR]

You probably know at least as much and probably more about how to do this correctly as I do but for the info of others:

How hot did you get the control arm and how did you heat it?

Do you think the following would be OK with the part you are working with?

Way back in the distant past I was told by racers to heat the casting in an oven to a moderate temp (MAYBE 350 F) or to gradually warm the area around the bearing to "spit sizzles" temp with a torch (I used a propane torch). Also freeze the bearing overnight after coating it with something like Copper Slip and, of course, make sure there are no burrs, etc. left over from removing the previous part. Then hope the bearing drops in square with minimal persuasion.

Thanks,

 

[NightmareMoon]

We used a torch to heat the area around the bearing when the stock bushing wouldn't press out with a hydraulic jack press. It really wasn't budging. Not sure how hot, definitely too hot to touch.

On the other control arm, we used one of those bearing removal kits which look like a big C clamp. That worked a lot better, as the C clamp style screw was setup to be easier to keep square, and obviously we didn't use any heat on that one. It seemed to move the huge LCA bearing much easier than the "12 Ton" hydraulic jack. Now just waiting on a new control arm to show up tomorrow.

 

[DickR]

Thanks. From your post it sounded like the problem was during installation of the new bearing but I guess the damage happened when removing the old bushing.

 

[Wolverine]

I have been in CAMC all season in 2018, albeit pretty seriously under-prepped based on what a CAM car could be.

Steeda adjustable shocks/struts
Steeda dual-rate springs
Roll-center corrected front arms
Full bearings everywhere front & rear
Stock swaybars front and rear
19x11 305 squared RE71R
Full weight
Stock powertrain

I’ve been successful in getting the car to handle better, but I haven’t even begun to test the adjustments on the dampers (rebound only). I’m happy with the dual rate springs, and I deliberated for a long time before choosing them fearing the spring rates would be too high. If I had to do it over again, I’d have gone with coilovers from day one. For struts though these are working very well for me.

The most common issue I have is running into the rev-limiter with the 3.73 gears and “only” 7,000 rpms. Plans to raise the rev limit to 8k and drop to 3.55 before this season is over. I’ve also wanted to try more tire, but the wider BFG Rivals (315 and 335) are only available in 18” rim size. I don’t want to buy another set of wheels just yet.

More power would sure help too, but I want to stay naturally aspirated. So a ported 2018 manifold, JLT intake, and Lund tune are coming soon. I’ve considered E85......maaaaaaaybe. It’s available around my area, but we shall see what unfolds there.

Boy CAMC sure is fun!

 

[NightmareMoon]

I have been in CAMC all season in 2018, albeit pretty seriously under-prepped based on what a CAM car could be.

Steeda adjustable shocks/struts
Steeda dual-rate springs
Roll-center corrected front arms
Full bearings everywhere front & rear
Stock swaybars front and rear
19x11 305 squared RE71R
Full weight
Stock powertrain

I’ve been successful in getting the car to handle better, but I haven’t even begun to test the adjustments on the dampers (rebound only). I’m happy with the dual rate springs, and I deliberated for a long time before choosing them fearing the spring rates would be too high. If I had to do it over again, I’d have gone with coilovers from day one. For struts though these are working very well for me.

The most common issue I have is running into the rev-limiter with the 3.73 gears and “only” 7,000 rpms. Plans to raise the rev limit to 8k and drop to 3.55 before this season is over. I’ve also wanted to try more tire, but the wider BFG Rivals (315 and 335) are only available in 18” rim size. I don’t want to buy another set of wheels just yet.

More power would sure help too, but I want to stay naturally aspirated. So a ported 2018 manifold, JLT intake, and Lund tune are coming soon. I’ve considered E85......maaaaaaaybe. It’s available around my area, but we shall see what unfolds there.

Boy CAMC sure is fun!

So far I'm pleased with the Steeda Dual Rate springs. I'll continue to be pleased if the Konis survive more than a year with the setup like this. The way I figure it, we're getting a significant chunk of the performance of expensive coilovers, at a tiny fraction of the cost. Even if I ditch the springs later and go with coilovers later, this seems like a good first step into the deep part of the pool.

So I guess I'm following in your footsteps (except I've got sways). I've got to catch up with the 305s on 19x11s next, and then I'll also be looking to 7500-8k with a tune, '18 manifold, and intake later on. I had not considered it, but I guess the 3.55s really are needed to stretch it to 70+. That's too bad, since autox is intended to be kept to 60mph or less, but the bigger events just always seem to have us hitting 60+ in multiple spots.

Did you notice much difference when you went to the 11" wheels and 305 tires? I'm not sure what to expect.

Just got the RLCA and FP toe bearings in. Dang that job took significantly longer than I anticipated. Its hard to tell the difference on the street, so I won't comment on it if helped performance any. The good news is I don't really notice any additional NVH. Maybe just slightly over harsh bumps, but its pretty trivial if its there at all.

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