Rumor - The GT500 thread

[02gtnh]

The Camaro just doesn't sell as well as the Mustang. Look how many last gen z28s were sold...many of them sat on the lot reduced 10k.
Want a rare car? Can get that one cheap. It's not about a car having mechanical problems, it's just that they don't sell as well as the SE mustangs. I don't know why that is, but I have a good sense it's the asthetics. To each their own but I never cared for their look, except the 60s versions, those are appealing. If the Camaro looked as appealing as it's performance, I'd have this new zl1le on order today. Unfortunately for me to buy it's gotta be all of what I like. I can deal with the mechanical shortcomings.

Building 3000 z28's in a very very very small market wasn't smart. Ford did it right limiting the R to 500 a year.:cheers:

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[machsmith]

The issues with the Z28 is they thought it was a larger niche market and that gutted race track inspired car doesn't sell well in large numbers. If they would've sold it like the gt350R and done really limited numbers it would've worked alot better. It probably comes down to a few things, asthetics for one and the other in my opinion is the Ford does not have another option for its loyalist beside an SE mustang where as for the chevy loyalist alot of them move up from the camaro to a corvette so they "loose" a sale (not really though cuz the money still goes to GM!!). Think about it alot of chevy loyalist have the choice of a SE camaro for 60-70k or they can spend a bit more or look for a lightly used Grand Sport or Z06. You don't have that option with Ford.

Agree, would be nice if ford offered something more. It goes from 67k to 450+k. Where the hell is 100k-200k. There is a market for it. Seems like most of the US builders let the foreign market have it, that's a lose in my opinion!

As with the 3,000 z28 being marketed wrong, I disagree. The thing wouldn't have sold well regardless. The price tag was a no no as well as the car just being a Camaro in general. Ford is selling 18,000 350s and probably close to 1700 R models. 20,000 track focused mustangs in essentially 3 years, even if they marketed the z28/zl1 right, that ever ain't gonna happen. Most of what they sell is at steep discounts because there just isn't the demand.

If the Camaro starts appealing more visually, get rid of that large bowl tie and badging, give a better seating position and I'd be in the running for that one.

 

[Hack]

Honest question, what are all the issues with the Camaro? I'm sure if I search the ford and camaro forums you'll come up with plenty of issues for each. Also as of the last reading I saw GM wasn't offering much discounts until recently, and as I recall Ford has been offering incentives since the release, so whats your point. The GT350R is seling for over msrp, but from what I can see you can get a standard 350 for under msrp. The ZL1/1LE pretty much dominates the 350 in the performance category as of now. Now the companies will never tell us the profit margins on these cars, but remember its not how many cars you can sell, it's how much can you make.

First caveat is I haven't driven one yet, but I plan to do it once the weather gets nicer. There are definitely quite a few to choose from on local dealers' lots!

The exterior styling is an issue for me and many. From the front it looks too much like the last gen Camaro. Also from the side it looks too much like the last Camaro. Chevy should have freshened up the styling more to make the car different and cool so more people would want it just due to styling. The exterior styling of the rear of the car is not good at all IMO. Chevy made the car look super bland from the rear. So there is one potential issue - styling IMO is not good.

Second issue is the interior. The gage pod in front of the driver is too high and the roof is too low. Many people who have sat in the car agree that it is difficult to see out of. Also, the rear roof pillars are not improved from what they were before. So it's hard to see out of the front and it's hard to see out of the rear.

Whether a car is quick or not, ugly and hard to see out of are issues that an owner would have to live with every day.

I've also heard that the angle of the screen in the interior is poor (it gets too many reflections and is difficult to see) and I don't like the positioning and appearance of the vents in the dash. Maybe they are better in person?

IMO the ZL-1 raises the bar on dumb looking with the canards, huge front splitter and the goofy shapes in the grill. Very hateable. I'm not sure whether I could own that car. I would be embarrassed to be seen on public roads driving it. Who knows, maybe the performance is good enough to make the pukable looks worth it? Or maybe GM will discount the price a few thousand like they have been on the other Camaro models to try to get some sales?

 

[ttime500]

First caveat is I haven't driven one yet, but I plan to do it once the weather gets nicer. There are definitely quite a few to choose from on local dealers' lots!

The exterior styling is an issue for me and many. From the front it looks too much like the last gen Camaro. Also from the side it looks too much like the last Camaro. Chevy should have freshened up the styling more to make the car different and cool so more people would want it just due to styling. The exterior styling of the rear of the car is not good at all IMO. Chevy made the car look super bland from the rear. So there is one potential issue - styling IMO is not good.

Second issue is the interior. The gage pod in front of the driver is too high and the roof is too low. Many people who have sat in the car agree that it is difficult to see out of. Also, the rear roof pillars are not improved from what they were before. So it's hard to see out of the front and it's hard to see out of the rear.

Whether a car is quick or not, ugly and hard to see out of are issues that an owner would have to live with every day.

I've also heard that the angle of the screen in the interior is poor (it gets too many reflections and is difficult to see) and I don't like the positioning and appearance of the vents in the dash. Maybe they are better in person?

IMO the ZL-1 raises the bar on dumb looking with the canards, huge front splitter and the goofy shapes in the grill. Very hateable. I'm not sure whether I could own that car. I would be embarrassed to be seen on public roads driving it. Who knows, maybe the performance is good enough to make the pukable looks worth it? Or maybe GM will discount the price a few thousand like they have been on the other Camaro models to try to get some sales?

There's plenty of mustang GTs to choose from as well, and like I said with the exception of the 350R can all be had at discount. Honestly looks are subjective to some extent. mustang forum is generally going to say the don't like the Camaro look. And the camaro forum is going to say the opposite. Interior styling is kind of the same deal. I have sat and drove both I really don't think the Camaro is any harder to see out of. I do however love PDR in my vette and really hope Ford adds something like it. Very cool and fun feature to have. Also the recaros in the camaro are much better, provide power and are htd/vented. I personally think you guys are right the Mustang is a better looking car but could use a bit more refinement, I feel they're very close.

 

[Hack]

There's plenty of mustang GTs to choose from as well, and like I said with the exception of the 350R can all be had at discount. Honestly looks are subjective to some extent. mustang forum is generally going to say the don't like the Camaro look. And the camaro forum is going to say the opposite. Interior styling is kind of the same deal. I have sat and drove both I really don't think the Camaro is any harder to see out of. I do however love PDR in my vette and really hope Ford adds something like it. Very cool and fun feature to have. Also the recaros in the camaro are much better, provide power and are htd/vented. I personally think you guys are right the Mustang is a better looking car but could use a bit more refinement, I feel they're very close.

Hey - you're a Chevy guy - it's all good. :cheers: I was just answering your question. If you want someone to blow sunshine up your keister about the Camaro this might not be the first place I would choose to ask.

I didn't say the Camaro was ugly.. I said it looks the same as the last gen from most angles. You can take that to mean it's ugly if you want. Edit: well I did say some features on the car are ugly.. I just think the car doesn't have that new, cool feel when it looks very similar to the cars that have been out on the road for the past few years.

I agree the cars are pretty close. If you love Chevy you can definitely figure out reasons to want to buy a Camaro.

 

[ttime500]

Hey - you're a Chevy guy - it's all good. :cheers: I was just answering your question. If you want someone to blow sunshine up your keister about the Camaro this might not be the first place I would choose to ask.

I didn't say the Camaro was ugly.. I said it looks the same as the last gen from most angles. You can take that to mean it's ugly if you want. Edit: well I did say some features on the car are ugly.. I just think the car doesn't have that new, cool feel when it looks very similar to the cars that have been out on the road for the past few years.

I agree the cars are pretty close. If you love Chevy you can definitely figure out reasons to want to buy a Camaro.

My point was it seemed your issues with the camaro (besides looks) were very picky issues and without ever driving one seem petty. I would defend the mustang if a camaro guy was saying the same things without sitting or driving one. With that said if two cars are pretty equal performance and fit and finish wise absolutely go with the one that you feel looks better, you'll always be happier. I'm not really a chevy guy, I'd consider myself a car guy. I have no real loyalty to any brand. If Ford builds an awesome SE mustang I'll buy it. I almost bought a'13 shelby gt500 but I decided a wanted a bit more luxury so I went with a CTS-V. Since then I think they brought the S550 to much more complete car, specially the interior. I really hope they do bring out a SE Mustang that is a complete package or at least offers an upgraded interior that competes in the 75-90K range. I do like the idea of a new Cobra code name Predator!!

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

I just read the interview in the April issue of Motor Trend,page 32, of what Raj Nair had to say in response to a question about Ford producing a competitor to the ZL1. Nair implied that the 5.2 liter GT350 will have more life in it and will be capable of producing more horsepower. Sounds to me like Ford may be ready to boost the horsepower of the 5.2 liter GT350 engine.

 

[9secondko]

I just read the interview in the April issue of Motor Trend,page 32, of what Raj Nair had to say in response to a question about Ford producing a competitor to the ZL1. Nair implied that the 5.2 liter GT350 will have more life in it and will be capable of producing more horsepower. Sounds to me like Ford may be ready to boost the horsepower of the 5.2 liter GT350 engine.

The Voodoo has been held back quite a bit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it make around 600 horsepower.

And then if they want to do a 350KR with an Ecoboost Voodoo, it would pretty much use the ZL1 as toilet paper.

But if they do that, might as well slap the big dog badge on the thing.

I can't see the 350 beating the zl1- forced induction is going to ensure a big power disparity. If not in horsepower, then definitely in torque. And the disparity will be enough to overcome the weight difference. So while the possibility exist that the 350 may beat the zl1 around the track, it will get whooped in the 1/4 mile and stoplights. Not cool. No way ford thinks the 350 is the zl1s competitor. i rememberhameedi having a laugh at chevy comparing the zl1 to the boss back in the day instead of the 500.

Personally I think nair may have been deflecting. No reason to tip off the comp if they're not ready to announce the dominator just yet.

 

[Hack]

My point was it seemed your issues with the camaro (besides looks) were very picky issues and without ever driving one seem petty. I would defend the mustang if a camaro guy was saying the same things without sitting or driving one. With that said if two cars are pretty equal performance and fit and finish wise absolutely go with the one that you feel looks better, you'll always be happier. I'm not really a chevy guy, I'd consider myself a car guy. I have no real loyalty to any brand. If Ford builds an awesome SE mustang I'll buy it. I almost bought a'13 shelby gt500 but I decided a wanted a bit more luxury so I went with a CTS-V. Since then I think they brought the S550 to much more complete car, specially the interior. I really hope they do bring out a SE Mustang that is a complete package or at least offers an upgraded interior that competes in the 75-90K range. I do like the idea of a new Cobra code name Predator!!

I watched some of the Motor Trend videos where Randy Pobst wears a helmet cam while driving the car. In the Camaro videos you can barely see the track! :lol:

I'm a tall guy so I might be ok in the Camaro. I do wish the Ford seats would lower down a little farther. One thing I really like about the GT350 is the forward visibility, though.

From your post I can tell you and I have very different priorities for a car. I prefer a cheap interior with all the money spent on a cool drive train and chassis. I find it irritating when I have to pay for a nice interior.

 

[ttime500]

From your post I can tell you and I have very different priorities for a car. I prefer a cheap interior with all the money spent on a cool drive train and chassis. I find it irritating when I have to pay for a nice interior.

Which is totally fine, many have the same opinion as you and many like me at least want the option. It doesn't all need to be standard but available would be nice, specially at price points over 65-70k. Or in your case option delete.

 

[Conedodger]

So when is Ford going to start talking about a GT500 or equivalent. Chevy has been splattering Zl1 info all over the web for a few days now. Buyers opinions are being formed NOW!

 

[ssr2003]

I believe they are waiting for New York auto show April 14.

 

[Mission2toilet]

So, while we were talking about GT500 Chevy came up with NA 5.5 32V 700hp on new Z28

http://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-...is-still-on-the-way-heres-everything-we-know/

 

[dron_jones]

So, while we were talking about GT500 Chevy came up with NA 5.5 32V 700hp on new Z28

http://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-...is-still-on-the-way-heres-everything-we-know/

I read that too, I can't imagine that what is there is true, or if it is what kind of price tag that car will come with. 700 NA hp? Titanium connecting rods? is this going to be a 6 figure Camaro? Seems like there would be all kinds of cannibalization and upset Z06 owners if this was the case.

 

[Hack]

So, while we were talking about GT500 Chevy came up with NA 5.5 32V 700hp on new Z28

http://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-...is-still-on-the-way-heres-everything-we-know/

How hilarious would it be to see the GM fans twist themselves into knots explaining how dual overhead cam engines are now great!!?? :lol:

No they aren't top heavy. Not compact - who cares!! :ford:

Oh - and of course it would be awesome if GM copied Ford and made a FPC engine. Very, very cool stuff. History of the Camaro... always a couple years behind the Mustang.

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