Required Upgrades for E-85?

[NGOT8R]

You give them too much credit. It had little to do with "trust" and was more "I'm sick of getting additional ticket requests" and they ran the numbers and realized that people were continuously asking for additional support when they employed the flex tuning. They make more money selling the canned, fire and forget other setups and so that's their choice (and frankly I respect them being honest). If you want flex fuel, just find another competent tuner who's willing to support you.

I wouldn’t say that I’m giving them too much credit, I was just pointing out that I had seen Alex provide an explanation for this on YT.

I wish I weren’t locked in with Lund only as a tuner, because I’d definitely like to try another tuner. I guess I was fortunate not to have any tuning issues with my setup that required lots of ticket requests. Tbh, I’m pretty happy about that.

The only way I‘d be able to get tuned by someone else would be to start all over with equipment, plus the cost of tuning for 93, Flex, E85R and Nitrous (which is expensive). If my nGauge ever goes bad and I can’t get it back up and running, then I’ll try a new tuner and tuning device.

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[GL95]

the Proflex commander isn’t something you need, you shouldn’t be blending fuels or trying to use “flex fuel“ on a forced induction coyote, you should run an E85 tune full time, if you want to run e85 full time. a drop in pump, with or without a voltage booster isn’t sufficient to runne85 in a forced induction coyote either, you need a return stupyle fuel system with a pt least 2 pumps. If you don’t want to spend $2-3k (minimum) for a decent fuel system, then you shouldn’t be trying to runnE85.

You can do it without issue with a can bus flex sensor. We aren't living in the 80s anymore

 

[GL95]

I wouldn’t say that I’m giving them too much credit, I was just pointing out that I had seen Alex provide an explanation for this on YT.

I wish I weren’t locked in with Lund only as a tuner, because I’d definitely like to try another tuner. I guess I was fortunate not to have any tuning issues with my setup that required lots of ticket requests. Tbh, I’m pretty happy about that.

The only way I‘d be able to get tuned by someone else would be to start all over with equipment, plus the cost of tuning for 93, Flex, E85R and Nitrous (which is expensive). If my nGauge ever goes bad and I can’t get it back up and running, then I’ll try a new tuner and tuning device.

This is the reason I would never buy a tuner specific device

 

[K4fxd]

You can do it without issue with a can bus flex sensor. We aren't living in the 80s anymore

There is at least one tuner who is using Fords logic with boost and non return fuel system and it is working fine.

Gen 3 ECU is very good

 

[NGOT8R]

There is at least one tuner who is using Fords logic with boost and non return fuel system and it is working fine.

Gen 3 ECU is very good

Which tuner is that? I’ve been back and forth about adding a SC or turbo to the Bullitt (while retaining the nitrous system, but jetted for about 50 hp) and would like more info on this tuner and what the fuel system requirements are. I’m currently running a DW400 and JMS BAP and new fuel line that is E85 compatible.

Please PM me info if you don’t wish to post it here on the open forum. Thanks

 

[cbrtrx]

Which tuner is that? I’ve been back and forth about adding a SC or turbo to the Bullitt (while retaining the nitrous system, but jetted for about 50 hp) and would like more info on this tuner and what the fuel system requirements are. I’m currently running a DW400 and JMS BAP and new fuel line that is E85 compatible.

Please PM me info if you don’t wish to post it here on the open forum. Thanks

What can be done and what is offered like mentioned earlier is very different. Lots of things are capable but it's just not cost/time effective so the major companies won't offer it. They are a buisness trying to make as much money with the least time invested. In the Ford world there is very little "custom" tuning. It's all copy and paste from a main file that a calibrator made 5 years ago now on the gen 3, then one of the employees there will just make very small changes if needed and send it back. They have no interest in learning new things or applying new strategies.

I use to offer a switch on the fly nitrous tune for coyotes to go from an NA tune to a nitrous tune instantly all the way back in 2011 when they came out but it just wasn't cost/time effective for me to keep offering it.

 

[NGOT8R]

What can be done and what is offered like mentioned earlier is very different. Lots of things are capable but it's just not cost/time effective so the major companies won't offer it. They are a buisness trying to make as much money with the least time invested. In the Ford world there is very little "custom" tuning. It's all copy and paste from a main file that a calibrator made 5 years ago now on the gen 3, then one of the employees there will just make very small changes if needed and send it back. They have no interest in learning new things or applying new strategies.

I completely agree with this. I’m sure there’s almost always more that can be done to just about any tune to make it better, but like you said, it takes time to do it.

Having said that, as much as these tunes cost, I believe the time should be put in by the tuners to give each customer the very best that their combination has to offer. Now, that’s not to say spend an I definite amount of time on each tune, but the main things that can hold a car back line clutch protection/torque management, shift points and low to mid range drivability for sure need to be done.

 

[K4fxd]

Like any other tune once the first one is vetted the rest will use the templet with minor tweaks.

Personally I would not want a return system on a current mustang due to the limited capacity of the tank. 50 mile range is not worth it, unless a drag only car IMO. If drag only I would rather have a fuel cell.

Some tuner should follow Mikes lead and offer a true flex tune for FI and stock type fuel system.

 

[WildHorse]

Gen 3 ECU is very good

Not so much as it's very good it just controls 16 injectors. So I'd imagine E85 wouldn't be a problem.

 

[engineermike]

I’ve had the opportunity to look “under the hood” of quite a few oem, canned, and custom tunes. I’m often quite shocked as to what I find.

Some big tuners just lock the cams to some non-optimal cam timing for cruise and sacrifice the fuel economy vct buys you. I understand we aren’t in this game for the fuel economy, but there’s no advantage to this other than just ease of tuning which benefits the customer none. Some even lock the cams at wot, which hurts power or torque.

The coyote pcm has the ability to pull timing with boost, charge temp, coolant temp, lambda, etc. The stock tunes pull timing if it goes lean at wot. Most tuners disable this and some reverse it. Yes, some popular aftermarket tunes actually add timing if it unintentionally goes lean.

The gen3 coyote pcm is ridiculously capable and most tuners don’t even scratch the surface of what it can do. I mean, who wouldn’t want to vary the boost as a function of learned ethanol %? Who wouldn’t want it to pull timing if it goes lean? Who wouldn’t want individual cylinder knock retard? Who wouldn’t want it to pull timing if the cams don’t follow commanded angles? And why not offer torque-by-gear or torque-by-drive mode if the customer wants it?

 

[GL95]

Like any other tune once the first one is vetted the rest will use the templet with minor tweaks.

Personally I would not want a return system on a current mustang due to the limited capacity of the tank. 50 mile range is not worth it, unless a drag only car IMO. If drag only I would rather have a fuel cell.

Some tuner should follow Mikes lead and offer a true flex tune for FI and stock type fuel system.

Use a fuel hat and that's not an issue

 

[WildHorse]

The gen3 coyote pcm is ridiculously capable and most tuners don’t even scratch the surface of what it can do. I mean, who wouldn’t want to vary the boost as a function of learned ethanol %? Who wouldn’t want it to pull timing if it goes lean? Who wouldn’t want individual cylinder knock retard? Who wouldn’t want it to pull timing if the cams don’t follow commanded angles? And why not offer torque-by-gear or torque-by-drive mode if the customer wants it?

let's see those tables in a stock gen3 coyote mustang PCM .

 

[engineermike]

I actually believe that lack of access to the fuel line volumes is what prevented commercial tuners from offering flex tunes for Gen3, and lack of ethanol %-based timing is why they don’t on gen2.

 

[engineermike]

let's see those tables in a stock gen3 coyote mustang PCM .

What exactly are you asking?

 

[WildHorse]

What exactly are you asking?

lets see the tables for all those things I quoted, or are you just saying in general ?

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