Questioning Gen 2 voodoo reliability

[BreadBurner]

I have no data, but I'm convinced that a good number of the engine replacements are anchored around two issues. People that treat the car like a mini van and don't let it warm fully and end up with consumption issues and a 12:1 compression motor hoping and relying on the consistency of pump gasoline (with no direct injection protections).

Between oil consumption replacements and the inevitable engine failures (that even GM is seeing on their 12.5:1 motors) with knock and crappy pump 93, I think that accounts for a big chunk of the issues.

I think some lesser chunks of the issue are things like oil pump gears (which plagued all coyote variants, not just the voodoo), and things like the oil filter and oil pressure sensor backing off and dumping the oil and nuking the motor.

I'm betting if you take those out, there's probably a minority of things like valves dropping, etc.

Granted, you can do high compression on pump gas, IF you don't try to wring out the most power possible and you tune it conservatively. My personal opinion is that Ford's calibration relies on knock sensors, but not enough. It has caps on how much fuel the short term trims can adjust and it has caps on how much timing can be adjusted for KS activity, but Ford must have decided that there's a balance between engine protections and a bunch of frustrated owners who are getting engine codes and limp modes all the time for bad fuel. IN summary, I think the OE calibration should have been way more aggressive in it's protections. If you're motor is seeing markedly more knock than usual, IN MY OPINION, the calibration should either limit the driver or at least warn them (rather than just getting to the end of the adjustments with a sad face that the motor is smoked.)

I'd rather have a check engine light pop up to warn me that maybe that last batch of fuel isn't so great, take it easy.

Case in point is the TPMS system.

I recently avoided what might have been terrible, possibly even DEADLY. I had swapped out the rear set for my drag radial set and it was the first time taking them out this year. It was particularly cold (for us here) and I checked the pressure on all 4. I went to the gas station a couple miles away to fuel up and I was on my way to meet up with some friends and do some "Spirited" pulls.

LUCKILY, I wanted to check the tire pressure (being more concerned about the rear) and as I got out onto the boulevard and I was JUST merging, I noticed that one of my front tires was way lower than the other. "That's weird, what's going on." Then I watched it drop from 24 psi, 22 psi, 20 psi and thought, oh shit, I must have a leak. By the time I got to the first exit and waited at a stop light to get to a service station, it was down below 15 psi. The engine light didn't come on until it read below 14 psi.

Why oh WHY doesn't Ford have simple logic where if there's a noticeable change in a short period of time it WARNS the driver. Instead, it waited until things were so bad/obvious that by that time, on the front tire, I could have been sent into a crash? The inside sidewall had failed and was compromised and had I been doing excessive speed, it's likely it would have been a rapid failure.

My point is, Ford's protections are largely too reactionary and not proactive enough.

I'm on MOTEC now and the protections are wonderful. It doesn't wait for the oil pressure to bottom out before it says "hey man, we know it's way too late, but you've lost oil pressure." Or knock activity or all sorts of protections that are very proactive in that if it recognizes a significant/rapid change, it won't allow me to flog the motor. It goes into a reduced/limp mode, even if the input signal is quite all the way to "too low."

If you're going to run 12:1 compression and roll the dice on pump gasoline, you can't afford to be reactionary, especially if you're trying to get near the edge of max performance. Ford's protections are usually WAY too late to say "hey, looks like something is wrong here, take it easy till we figure this out." It runs to the end of fuel trims or KS adjustments and by then it may be sad faces all around.

OE?

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[BreadBurner]

You're correct however, there were relatively major changes in 19. The other changes you mentioned were gradual but certainly significant. The 19 changes were a result of the upcoming GT500. Even with the CPC it added stress to the engine. The cylinder heads changed as well to address failures. As others have pointed out, 20s had some valve issues that was traced to a supplier. I bleed Ford blue but you can't ignore the quality issues across the Ford line of vehicles

CPC?

 

[BreadBurner]

proper cooldown would mean…after a good flogging, take the last couple miles easy and let the EGTs, CHTs and the like come down from peak temps before shutting down

EGT and CHT?

 

[rocsteady]

OE?"

"Original Equipment," the factory stuff, I'm thinking.
CPC = "Cross Plane Crankshaft"
CHT = "Cylinder Head Temperature"
EGT = not sure of that one, "Exhaust Gas Temps"?

 

[JAJ]

"Original Equipment," the factory stuff, I'm thinking.
CPC = "Cross Plane Crankshaft"
CHT = "Cylinder Head Temperature"
EGT = not sure of that one, "Exhaust Gas Temps"?

Correct on all four. In case you're wondering, exhaust gas temperatures (EGT) is measured by the oxygen sensors as a safety measure. Too high and damage to the exhaust valves can occur.

 

[BreadBurner]

"Original Equipment," the factory stuff, I'm thinking.
CPC = "Cross Plane Crankshaft"
CHT = "Cylinder Head Temperature"
EGT = not sure of that one, "Exhaust Gas Temps"?

Thanks for the clarification. I was tracking on the term OEM, but never heard of people dropping the M for that terminology.

 

[ParkCity06]

I haven't read through all of this yet--if it hasn't been posted already in this thread--check out this video that gives a pretty good summary of the improvements to the gen 2 motor (there may be more than highlighted here). Fathouse Performance does incredible work.

Also, i can't speak to the 2019s, but I know the 2020 GT350Rs come with the GT500 steering knuckle as well that has eliminated tramlining.

I have 15k on my car now--i bought to enjoy and create memories, not stare at it. But I also take care of my stuff. The car is still pristine, regular 4k - 5k oil changes, and it uses no oil. Car is still under power train warranty.

If it were me, I would call Fathouse and confirm the improvements to the Gen 2 motor, and why those improvement were necessary and how they helped. Fathouse tears the motor down down for the 1000hp+ packages--but not the 800hp versions--I believe.

I would also call Hennessey Performance to get there take. They build serious supercharged motors.


Gen 2 motor upgrades

 

[Shanksfornothin]

Someone did post that video already but i didn’t know about the steering knuckle that’s good to know!

 

[Angrey]

How do you eliminate tramlining with a steering knuckle?

 

[svttim]

Someone did post that video already but i didn’t know about the steering knuckle that’s good to know!

I could be wrong but thought that was only the R models

 

[JAJ]

I could be wrong but thought that was only the R models

You are correct. Only 2020 R's got them. AND, I'm pretty sure it was a clever way to get a factory part into the parts bin that would allow GT500 owners to switch to GT350 front brakes and 19" rims.

 

[Tenek]

Hey everyone,

I recently bought a supercharged (with Whipple) 2019 GT350. The first thing I did was take it to a mechanic for diagnostics and a Lund Racing tune. The car passed the 93 octane tune successfully, but unfortunately, the engine blew out on the E85 tune (rod through block). Luckily, the mechanic's insurance stepped in and covered the engine swap. The mechanic is also swapping the supercharger and its components to the new engine.

I'll be picking up the car shortly and plan to tune it just for 93 octane this time (after breaking-in period, at least 1000 miles right?). I'm new to muscle cars and manual transmissions, and I barely got to drive the car before the incident. Do you have any recommendations on how to appropriately break in the new engine? Any specific tips or things to avoid during this period would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[MAGS1]

Hey everyone,

I recently bought a supercharged (with Whipple) 2019 GT350. The first thing I did was take it to a mechanic for diagnostics and a Lund Racing tune. The car passed the 93 octane tune successfully, but unfortunately, the engine blew out on the E85 tune (rod through block). Luckily, the mechanic's insurance stepped in and covered the engine swap. The mechanic is also swapping the supercharger and its components to the new engine.

I'll be picking up the car shortly and plan to tune it just for 93 octane this time (after breaking-in period, at least 1000 miles right?). I'm new to muscle cars and manual transmissions, and I barely got to drive the car before the incident. Do you have any recommendations on how to appropriately break in the new engine? Any specific tips or things to avoid during this period would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

The owners manual will have what Ford recommends. In general, vary speeds and RPM’s, get the oil up to operating temp before giving it the beans. There isn’t a consensus among folks here, everyone does it a bit different. Some have had oil consumption issues following the book, others have not. Same can be said for going outside the book.

Will let others chime in specifically to the Voodoo, but I more or less followed the book from Ford with my Coyote and it doesn’t consume a drop.

Congrats on the car, a Whippled GT350 sounds like an absolute riot!

 

[wingnutt]

Hey everyone,

I recently bought a supercharged (with Whipple) 2019 GT350. The first thing I did was take it to a mechanic for diagnostics and a Lund Racing tune. The car passed the 93 octane tune successfully, but unfortunately, the engine blew out on the E85 tune (rod through block). Luckily, the mechanic's insurance stepped in and covered the engine swap. The mechanic is also swapping the supercharger and its components to the new engine.

I'll be picking up the car shortly and plan to tune it just for 93 octane this time (after breaking-in period, at least 1000 miles right?). I'm new to muscle cars and manual transmissions, and I barely got to drive the car before the incident. Do you have any recommendations on how to appropriately break in the new engine? Any specific tips or things to avoid during this period would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

lol…so many questions, so little time

 

[Tenek]

lol…so many questions, so little time

Haha, I know, right? Picking up the car tomorrow. Wish me luck. My break-in period will mostly be in a trafficky area. I checked this video, and it looks like it might be a good idea to try to take it to some clear side roads for breaking in the higher gears...

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