Proper Break-in of any engine

[AdamIsAdam]

This is an article that was reference by very well respected engine builders (and engineers), Charles Navaro and Jake Raby, of LN Engineering. They are VERY big in the Porsche world, and specifically, the models subject to the infamous IMS bearing failures on the early water cooled engines. I've found MANY similarities between those engine failures and the Voodoo in terms of not knowing what's wrong, the manufacturer covering things up, etc. In my opinion, the Voodoo seems to be better and less prone to failure. Porsche lost a class action suit over the IMS. So far, Ford is clean.

Anyway, despite the elementary fonts on the site, the info on this page about break-in procedures seems to be the real deal, complete with his own proof based on hundreds of engines built. And given that the Voodoo is a hand-built race engine, I think break-in is playing a critical role in some of the high oil consumption problems we're seeing.

What freaked me out the most about reading this, was just how crucial the first 20 (TWENTY!) miles are to the longevity of an engine!

Now, I don't think they do, but does anyone know for sure if Ford dyno's the Voodoo before it leaves the factory? That engine building article by Steve Turner (https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/) says they pressure test each engine for leaks, but doesn't say they are dyno'd.

Here's the article. He points out that although the examples shown are motorcycle engines, these principles apply to all 4 stroke engines.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

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[Tomster]

Now, I don't think they do, but does anyone know for sure if Ford dyno's the Voodoo before it leaves the factory? That engine building article by Steve Turner (https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/) says they pressure test each engine for leaks, but doesn't say they are dyno'd.

Yes, the car is put on a dyno.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

After I posted this thread, I emailed Steve Turner through his site. He immediately wrote back: "They don’t fire the engine at the plant..."

Now, maybe he means the engine is not fired in the Niche plant? And you are saying the car is put on a dyno. I assume you know what you're talking about (because you seem to really know your stuff based on your contributions here, and thanks for that!), so can you elaborate?

Is it that the completed car is put on a chassis dyno after assembly? (if so, for how long and why?)

Is Steve incorrect or is he talking about just the engines not being put on an engine dyno?

Thanks, again(!) for your insight.
Adam

 

[Tomster]

From an inside source at Flat Rock, all cars are dyno'd. I just texted him to verify. Air/fuel etc, diagnosis. Not a K&N performance dyno.

That's all I am going to say about that.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

COOL! thanks! But why? just to check if everything is ok, like looking for leaks? Or are they breaking in the engines? (how long are they on the dyno for? one pull, three pulls? Or just x amount of minutes?)

(SORRY FOR ALL THE QUESTIONS, just trying to understand. And this is REALLY cool stuff to know!)

THANKS!

 

[nastang87xx]

See my signature for break in procedure.

EDIT: Crap, not there. Anyway...



GT350 break in procedure:

 

[Offboost]

I agree with his procedures mainly the allowing to fully warm up and load the car. I think a majority of owners here though those first miles are all done driving slowly to the detail shop to have the PPF done windows tinted etc and multiple cold starts not fully warming up the engine so by the time they are ready to drive the cylinder walls may already be glazed a bit. But I also don't think it means the rings will never fully seat if the car is driven and loaded up properly within the first 500 to 1000 miles either.

The most ideal thing to me is taking it from the dealer and finding a nice mountain curvy road (if you live in a city that is not flat) that will allow you to keep the engine under load and moderate rpms this will automatically vary the rpms and load just avoid long hard extended pulls only short bursts. Just my 2 cents.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

I'm glad I did what I did, which is to:

1) NEVER drive it without the time to allow it to fully warm up (ie, no short trips, only 20+minute trips)
2) use moderate loads, AND allow for deceleration in gear
3) but not going WOT during first 500 miles and not redlining it right away.

Basically, my thought process was to follow the owners manual, and also realize that this is an old-school assembly (ie, by hand) which likely needs an old-school break-in (ie, hard on gas, decel in gear, to seat rings). But if you read the owners manual carefully, it does say to get on it, but to not actually compete with it before 1,000 miles.

I took that to mean that I should get on it as I drove it to the PPF shop ;-)


THEN: oil change at 950 miles.

 

[oldbmwfan]

The break-in procedure I have described many times is a variation of what the Motoman site suggests. Short bursts, full throttle, with gradually increasing max RPM for each "burst." Cars I've done this with have not used oil and have had strong performance and fuel economy over their lifetime. Obviously my "n" is small and it's anecdotal, but I do think the manufacturer recommended "gentle break in" is a least-common-denominator, CYA method that prevents major damage but also does not optimize anything at all. It's to avoid warranty liability for the idiot who goes and redlines the car off the lot and pegs it there.

As for what happens at the factory - lots of folks have had cars delivered with less than 5 miles showing on the odometer so still plenty of time to do it right. (My car came with 4.1 or 4.3 miles showing, I forget exactly.)

 

[AdamIsAdam]

I'm hopeful that they spend a good amount of time on the dyno at the factory. I don't know about these engines, but old school cams need 20 minutes steady @ 2,000 RPM to break in valve train. But that's flat tappet stuff - I told you, old school.

Better they should dyno it at the factory than just drive the car off the line, then off. Then start to drive onto carrier (in R of course), off. Then drive onto dealer lot, off. Then move it x times on the lot, off. Then into shop for prep where they can screw up the splitter install, off. Done screwing that up, drive out to garage, off. It's sold? ok, drive to prep bay, off. Out of bay, off.

THEN we take delivery at 4.1 or 4.3 miles with dozens of cold starts.

It's a miracle every car doesn't burn oil! lol

 

[honeybadger]

This is an article that was reference by very well respected engine builders (and engineers), Charles Navaro and Jake Raby, of LN Engineering. They are VERY big in the Porsche world, and specifically, the models subject to the infamous IMS bearing failures on the early water cooled engines. I've found MANY similarities between those engine failures and the Voodoo in terms of not knowing what's wrong, the manufacturer covering things up, etc. In my opinion, the Voodoo seems to be better and less prone to failure. Porsche lost a class action suit over the IMS. So far, Ford is clean.

Anyway, despite the elementary fonts on the site, the info on this page about break-in procedures seems to be the real deal, complete with his own proof based on hundreds of engines built. And given that the Voodoo is a hand-built race engine, I think break-in is playing a critical role in some of the high oil consumption problems we're seeing.

What freaked me out the most about reading this, was just how crucial the first 20 (TWENTY!) miles are to the longevity of an engine!

Now, I don't think they do, but does anyone know for sure if Ford dyno's the Voodoo before it leaves the factory? That engine building article by Steve Turner (https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/) says they pressure test each engine for leaks, but doesn't say they are dyno'd.

Here's the article. He points out that although the examples shown are motorcycle engines, these principles apply to all 4 stroke engines.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

From the article:

Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

This is exactly how HB's new engine is getting broken in

 

[BKTorch]

From the article:

Do Three 1/2 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 60% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

Do Three 3/4 Throttle dyno runs from
40% - 80% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

Do Three Full Throttle dyno runs from
30% - 100% of your engine's max rpm
Let it Cool Down For About 15 Minutes

This is exactly how HB's new engine is getting broken in

This is also how the 5.0 XS we run was broken in. 0 issues with the motor so far. The trans(3rd/4th gear) has been the weak spot in the build.

 

[drummerboy]

Thanks a ton for this info.

Updated with voodoo RPM, mph, and additional details if you do this on the street leaving the lot:

Let the engine warm COMPLETELY. Also allow the engine to decelerate fully on it's own without braking. He also specifically mentions not needing to pull off to the side of the road for 15 minutes for cooldown when performing this on the street, and, because of the wind resistance, you don't need to use higher gears like you would on a dyno machine. The main thing is to load the engine by opening the throttle hard in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.

1) Three 1/2 throttle runs from 3300-5000
Speeds for this RPM would be:
2nd gear 30mph-50mph
3rd gear 45mph-65mph
4th gear 55mph-85mph
5th gear 70mph-105mph
Do not need to let it cool down, just proceed:

2) Three 3/4 throttle runs from 3300-6600
Speeds for this RPM would be:
2nd gear 30mph-65mph
3rd gear 45mph-85mph
4th gear 55mph-115mph
5th gear 70mph-140mph
Do not need to let it cool down, just proceed:

3) Three full throttle runs from 2500-8250
Speeds for this RPM would be:
2nd gear 25mph-80mph
3rd gear 35mph-110mph
4th gear 45mph-140mph
5th gear 55mph-175mph

Could employ several different strategies, such as:
3 runs, 1/2 throttle, 4th gear, 55mph-85mph
3 runs, 3/4 throttle, 3rd gear, 45mph-85mph
3 runs, full throttle, 2nd gear, 25mph-80mph

But I think the point is just to quickly get into some short bursts of hard pulls early on in the engine life. From there what he is saying is it's important to run it hard to make sure the rings get seated.

Because of the wind resistance, you don't need to use higher gears like you would on a dyno machine. The main thing is to load the engine by opening the throttle hard in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.

Realistically, you won't be able to do full throttle runs even in 2nd gear on most bikes without exceeding 65 mph / 104 kph.The best method is to alternate between short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. You don't have to go over 65 mph / 104 kph to properly load the rings. Also, make sure that you're not being followed by another bike or car when you decelerate, most drivers won't expect that you'll suddenly slow down, and we don't want anyone to get hit from behind !!

The biggest problem with breaking your engine in on the street (besides police) is if you ride the bike on the freeway (too little throttle = not enough pressure on the rings) or if you get stuck in slow city traffic. For the first 200 miles or so, get out into the country where you can vary the speed more
and run it through the gears !

 

[AdamIsAdam]

@drummerboy Nice addition!

I just want to make it crystal clear to others that warming up an engine means DRIVING (gently) but NOT IDLING. You can idle it a little, but in general, idling is bad, always. It doesn't evenly heat the engine and does nothing to warm the rest of the drive train.

 

[Woody25]

From an inside source at Flat Rock, all cars are dyno'd. I just texted him to verify. Air/fuel etc, diagnosis. Not a K&N performance dyno.

That's all I am going to say about that.

Since you have an inside at flat rock can you kindly get my chassis number for me
Thank you in advance.

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