Phasing out the V6

[J.Darcy]

Does anyone care that Ford seems to be slowly phasing out the V6? Obvious signs are that they are not offering it in Europe, they made no changes or power increases to the 3.7L and as far as I know they didn't even show the base model at any of the reveal events. I'm sure all this points to them replacing it with the EB4 in the very near future.

Am I the only one that will miss this engine? the v6 has been with the Mustang since the beginning.... and they did such a great job with the 3.7l. Will the EB4 be a worthy replacement?

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[appledore4]

I'm guessing that in a year or two, they'll position the 3.5 eco boost between the 2.3 liter 4 and the V8. If the EB 2.3 is +/- 305 HP and the V8 is 430+ HP then the EB 3.5 would slot in there nicely. It currently makes 365 HP in the Taurus. They just developed a racing version of the 3.5 for the new united sportscar racing series. If they race it for a year or so, it will give it street cred before they put it in the Mustang. They did this with the Boss 302 engine. Ran it in the Continental Tire series before they introduced the street car.

 

[thePill]

Here's the issue with engine sizes...

In Europe, there is a rather larger tax on engines over 2 liters. There is an even greater tax on engines above 3 liters.

So, Ford has some room for the EB4 between 2.0 liters (old) and 2.9 liters (settled on 2.3). The 2.3 could get well over 35mpg (could be 40mpg) and offer more HP and TQ without affecting the MSRP too much (we will see later).

A 3.7 in Europe is counter productive.. Less power, more weight, less MPG and a HUGE 3+ liter tax for nothing...

In my opinion, they should have just done away with the 3.7 for a base model... Unless the MSRP is below $25,000 for a V6... It would be totally worth it.

I'm guessing that in a year or two, they'll position the 3.5 eco boost between the 2.3 liter 4 and the V8. If the EB 2.3 is +/- 305 HP and the V8 is 430+ HP then the EB 3.5 would slot in there nicely. It currently makes 365 HP in the Taurus. They just developed a racing version of the 3.5 for the new united sportscar racing series. If they race it for a year or so, it will give it street cred before they put it in the Mustang. They did this with the Boss 302 engine. Ran it in the Continental Tire series before they introduced the street car.

Eventually, the 2.3 could be taken back down to a 2.0 (1.9 even to save the customer even more) and still push out 325hp @42mpg... Laugh now, but just wait...

We could see a EB2.0 (1949cc) an EB3.5 and the beloved 5.0. Each engine is separated by 1.5 liters, cover pretty much every Motorsport class worldwide (engine restrictions) and each system can be upgraded when needs to a twin turbo system for more power. TT2.0=365hp, TT3.5=430hp, TT5.0 550hp... Scalability, streamlined and major potential for the after market/Ford Racing.

 

[Ericc B]

Actually more and more countries in Europe are moving towards taxing engines based on CO2 output, not on size. The whole 2 liters or more system was only used in a few countries, but really silly and indeed has lead to certain automakers offering 1.9's in those markets in the past.

In my country for example the taxing is now based 100% on CO2. So it doesn't really matter anymore if it's a 1.9, 2.0 or 2.3, it's the grams that count. This is also why we need the EB in the first place, taxation on the atmospheric 3.7 and 5.0 is so high you need a second mortgage to buy them.

 

[jmstang66]

i love my 3.7 mustang, be sad to see it go, but if it's replaced by the eb 3.5 that would be sick

 

[thePill]

Actually more and more countries in Europe are moving towards taxing engines based on CO2 output, not on size. The whole 2 liters or more system was only used in a few countries, but really silly and indeed has lead to certain automakers offering 1.9's in those markets in the past.

In my country for example the taxing is now based 100% on CO2. So it doesn't really matter anymore if it's a 1.9, 2.0 or 2.3, it's the grams that count. This is also why we need the EB in the first place, taxation on the atmospheric 3.7 and 5.0 is so high you need a second mortgage to buy them.

Until Euro4 or 5 (what ever Europe calls their CAFE) changes, it will be based on engine size. It needs to be changed Europe wide (including Australia/New Zealand, part of Euro4/5).

It will need to be changed (and should) to reflect CAFE standards.

 

[NRMStand]

This thread should be titled "phasing out the 3.7L" as the V6 is not going anywhere. In fact, in keeping with Ford's trend they are buttering everyone up for Ecoboost and then I think it'll make its way into the 6 cylinder on the Mustang. Decades from now a TTV6 could be the GT and the V8 reserved for high performance models and special editions.

 

[DougNuts]

Does anyone care that Ford seems to be slowly phasing out the V6? Obvious signs are that they are not offering it in Europe, they made no changes or power increases to the 3.7L and as far as I know they didn't even show the base model at any of the reveal events. I'm sure all this points to them replacing it with the EB4 in the very near future.

Am I the only one that will miss this engine? the v6 has been with the Mustang since the beginning.... and they did such a great job with the 3.7l. Will the EB4 be a worthy replacement?

There has not always been a V6, or even a 6 cylinder, option for the Mustang.

I don't think the Mustang needs 3 engine choices (not even counting the Cobra/Shelby) but I like the 3.7L, so I don't know what to think. Although it's worthy of being more than a "fleet" engine, I think that will end up being a majority of it's sales, which is a damn shame.

 

[86GT]

I would bet good money a six cylinder will outlast the V8. The nano V6 ecoboost will probably be the most realistic progression, 2.7-3.0 liters making 132 times the power compared to liters just like this 2.3 should. 355 for 2.7, almost 400 for a 3.0

 

[Trackaholic]

I like naturally aspirated engines, so I'm sad to see this V6 getting so little attention.

I know the EB4 will be better on power, torque, and MPG (but IMO it likely won't be significantly better in any of those - except maybe torque), but you'll pay a penalty in throttle response, sound, and NVH.

I have a friend with a 2012 V6 convertible, and that engine is surprisingly nice. I was disappointed to hear that they wouldn't offer a performance package with the V6, because I believe that could be a great choice for someone looking for a lighter package that is still packing 300 HP and does not have the added complexity of the turbos.

-T

 

[ford4v429]

Here's the issue with engine sizes...

In Europe, there is a rather larger tax on engines over 2 liters. There is an even greater tax on engines above 3 liters.

So, Ford has some room for the EB4 between 2.0 liters (old) and 2.9 liters (settled on 2.3). The 2.3 could get well over 35mpg (could be 40mpg) and offer more HP and TQ without affecting the MSRP too much (we will see later).

A 3.7 in Europe is counter productive.. Less power, more weight, less MPG and a HUGE 3+ liter tax for nothing...

In my opinion, they should have just done away with the 3.7 for a base model... Unless the MSRP is below $25,000 for a V6... It would be totally worth it.



Eventually, the 2.3 could be taken back down to a 2.0 (1.9 even to save the customer even more) and still push out 325hp @42mpg... Laugh now, but just wait...

We could see a EB2.0 (1949cc) an EB3.5 and the beloved 5.0. Each engine is separated by 1.5 liters, cover pretty much every Motorsport class worldwide (engine restrictions) and each system can be upgraded when needs to a twin turbo system for more power. TT2.0=365hp, TT3.5=430hp, TT5.0 550hp... Scalability, streamlined and major potential for the after market/Ford Racing.

I think for europe, you are on the likely track- I'd go so far as to not be surprised if the EB 1.0 might even make it into a 'pony' version over there- power to weight wouldnt be to ridiculous by european general transportation expectations. with a 8 speed or CVT it would be a adequate setup. time will tell- but I have serious doubts of any quantities of 5.0s being sold anywhere but the middle east- heck, the last 2 months production of the crown vic/marquis ALL went to saudi arabia- rumor was some 5.0 versions did too. water costs more than gas over there...

 

[ford4v429]

I like naturally aspirated engines, so I'm sad to see this V6 getting so little attention.

I know the EB4 will be better on power, torque, and MPG (but IMO it likely won't be significantly better in any of those - except maybe torque), but you'll pay a penalty in throttle response, sound, and NVH.

I have a friend with a 2012 V6 convertible, and that engine is surprisingly nice. I was disappointed to hear that they wouldn't offer a performance package with the V6, because I believe that could be a great choice for someone looking for a lighter package that is still packing 300 HP and does not have the added complexity of the turbos.

-T

I am really surprised ford hasnt flattened the v6 to 120 degrees- with a 120 crank, you would get similar bank-to bank exhaust mismatch to get a more V8 like sound, plus the benefit of reduced height for the hood- the s197 bay I
*think* would handle the extra width, dunno how tight the s550 will be...

there was rumors of considering a 180 crank for the v8, as it is more balanced- but that would turn the American V8 exhaust note into a ferrarilike V8 buzz of stereo 4 cylinders...no thanks.

 

[Dirk McGurck]

there was rumors of considering a 180 crank for the v8, as it is more balanced- but that would turn the American V8 exhaust note into a ferrarilike V8 buzz of stereo 4 cylinders...no thanks.

I'll take it if you don't want it.

 

[JBsC6]

The v6 mustang exists to maintain a price affordable or more affordable than the turbo 4.

The v6 with over 300 hp is impressive as the standard engine.

I'm sure the 1500 dollar more expensive turbo four is fun too.

The 5 liter v8 would be the car to test drive before deciding.

Should be fun.

In any of these iterations.


I believe the v6 will be around a long long time.

 

[Falc'man]

Don't know about the EB3.5 fitting "between" the 2.3EB and atmo 5.0. If it (the 3.5EB) isn't detuned to buggery it would rip the Coyote a new one - even with 365hp.

Don't like the idea of losing the 3.7, but with economies of scale it'll be a decision based on profit alone. The 2.3EB will out-power it but like Trackoholic has said it's the purity of an atmo that is rewarding.

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