Not sure I trust 5w20 anymore

Discussion in 'Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls' started by careature, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. careature

    careature Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how credible the source is.

    https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

    The article is about CAFE vs wear in general.



    Heresy, pure heresy...
     
  2. Condor1970

    Condor1970 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I trust it either. I think if anything, this engine may like 5w30 for low speed sheer strength more than anything.
     
  3. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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  4. 88lx50

    88lx50 Well-Known Member

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    That's some good info. I had planned on switching to 5w30 in the next few months. I think I am going to do it in the next few days.
     
  5. robwlf

    robwlf Well-Known Member

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    i run 5w30 and havnt looked back .. pennsoil or castrol euro
     
  6. Kinjirra

    Kinjirra I R Slow

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    I wouldn't trust that since its going on 8 years out of date. The engines are two generations ahead and oil specs are different. That being said I'm running a 5w-30(Pennzoil plat ultra) due to not being stock and what I use the car for. A completely stock never modified car that expects full warranty prob should use the factory recommendations.
     
  7. NvrFinished

    NvrFinished Well-Known Member

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    I've been running 5w-30 in my car since I do HPDE's at various road courses in warm SoCal. After reading these articles and others, I believe I'm going to be bumping up to a 40W oil for my road course events and continue with the 5w-30 for daily driving.
     
  8. Mountain376

    Mountain376 Well-Known Member

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    And as the years have gone by, the anti-wear protection in oils has gone lower and lower due to emissions contributions and affecting emissions components. Also, many of your typical, off the shelf examples have scewed a bit to the thinner end of viscosity ratings range (partly due to synthetics and partly fuel economy). API/ILSAC, who “certify” oil, have links to the EPA and CARB. Think about that.

    The narrative is still somewhat true.

    The narrative of, “oh, production tolerances have improved, gotten tighter” for being a reason for thinner oils is an incorrect way to look at this.

    This is especially true in a performance car and even more true in a performance car that gets used in an actual performance manner. In a typical daily driver, and using a quality oil, yeah, 5w-20 will do just fine.

    Factory fill for GT500, Boss 302 and 13/14 Track Pack GT’s was 5w-50 (Motorcraft stuff shears to 40-weight quickly). I won’t mention GT350 as that engine sees much higher RPM and isn’t as relateable in this case. Look at what GM is doing for Corvette and changing the factory fill to 0w-40. GM doesn’t even recommend 5w-20 in the V8’s, they recommend 5w-30 as the fill. Look at the BMW and Mercedes performance cars: typically 0w-40.
     
  9. Kinjirra

    Kinjirra I R Slow

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    Not sure where your going with this.... My point was to treat a 7yr old article as such...7 years out of date. Also I stated I myself use a super quality 5w30 in my daily. I personally think a 5w-20 is too thin for what I use the car for...im not stock nor worried about warranty. I think comparing what ford recommends to what BWM recommends is somewhat silly. Apples or oranges comparison. Different engines, different laws and different uses. Same with comparing to any manufacturer other then ford itself. The Current series of GM/dodge engines are nothing like the coyote...again apples and oranges.

    So once again... 7 year old article...treat as such. If your expecting warranty work..stick with the factory weight(doesn't have to be motocrap however) since they will send your oil off to check...happened to people before. If your like me make an informed choice based on use.
     
  10. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    Ford engine tolerances aren't any different now then they were 7~8 years ago. Two factors in oil properties prevent engine wear: 1) viscosity and 2) anti-wear additives. Viscosity is the primary propertiy that keeps parts separated with a thin shearing film of oil. Anti-wear additives help prevent wear when the viscosity can't keep parts 100% separated and metal-to-metal contact occurs. I'm also bumping up to a 5W-30 even for mostly normal street driving because I want a good first line of defense against engine wear - specifically more viscosity.

    It's no secret that Ford went to specifying 5W-20 (and back specifying on older engines) because if CAFE.
     
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  11. 17LightningGT

    17LightningGT Well-Known Member

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    I'll be honest, I just switched to 5w-30 in my 2018.

    When i first bought the car, it had sat inside a dealers showroom for 7 or so months. I put the break in miles on it(1000 miles), and then changed to 5w20 mobil and motorcraft filter. Now with 3700 miles on it, I changed it again with 5w30.

    In the 2018 owners manual, ford even states that before any track event, oil and filter should be changed with 5w30, and then after the event, changed back to 5w20.

    Im probably skipping the change back to 5w20 portion. Owners manual says the car can run on it, and they recommend it for track type driving. It obviously means that for harder use, the 5w20 cant provide the protection the car needs.
     
  12. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    The main reason Ford says to change back to 5W-20 after track use is again because of CAFE. Running 5W-30 all the time isn't going to hurt these engines. Roush won't warranty their cars unless you run 5W-50 all the time. If a heavier oil than 5W-20 was going to damage the engine, Roush wouldn't even think of that oil viscosity.
     
  13. Mountain376

    Mountain376 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. This.

    And those anti-wear additives you speak of have been reduced API/ILSAC rating to API/ILSAC rating since the "articles in question" came out. Yes, there have been other additives put in as compensation of what these additives used to do, but they are not as effective. If you haven't guessed, I'm talking ZDDP.

    Cranking and pumping losses is now something the OEM's look at. With this subject, cranking losses are relevant to oil - the thinner, the better the flow, cold and hot.

    The third thing oil does is act as a coolant.

    Also, the thicker the oil, the more heat it can take before "thinning". A lot of people talk about "break down". Yeah, that's a thing, but the "thinning" is a far sooner reality than "break down". You get "thinner" and you increase the potential wear for a mechanical component under load.
     
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  14. Mountain376

    Mountain376 Well-Known Member

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    The other part is the TI-VCT system. I cannot comment on the design book-ends, but I will say, I am sure there is a maximum viscosity at which something like the VCT solenoids do not work that well. Just a thought point...
     
  15. GT Pony

    GT Pony Well-Known Member

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    Roush wouldn't specify to use 5W-50 in their cars if it caused problems.
     
  16. Ebm

    Ebm Well-Known Member

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    A few weeks back I got laughed at on this forum by a few members for questioning the 5w-20 oil spec. I also believe the switch to 5w-20 was because of CAFE standards. I've been running 5w-30 in mine since I've owned it, but recently switched to 0w-30 to try it out. So far so good.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    careature

    careature Well-Known Member

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    wish I could do this. My engine ticks with > 5w20
     
  18. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    One very, very, very important acronym everyone should get to know when choosing between oils (even of the same weight rating): HTHS

    People also forget that while the bulk temperature of the oil doesn't get that hot during street driving or even spirited road driving, local temperatures in the highest load areas and climb quite a bit. Thermal breakdown happens a milliliter at a time...
     
  19. Burkey

    Burkey Well-Known Member

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    5w/30 is THE spec for these cars in Australia. Not sure if that helps any of you to make your decision but clearly it’s good enough for Ford Australia.
    Also worth noting that the BBQ tick is barely even a thing over here.
     
  20. wildcatgoal

    wildcatgoal @sirboom_photography

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    5W20 is fine on the street - you aren't doing anything on the street to ignore the factory's engineers. Synthetics are excellent oils these days. On track, you could sheer a 5W20 down so use 5W30 due to sustained higher heat. 5W30 seems to be fine in my engine on the street, as was 5W40 but I did wait much longer to drive when I had 5W40 as even though they all had a 5W the 5W40 wanted more time before the engine warmed up and I felt it was fine to start driving (speaking of after a cold start). When I tracked 5W40 Liqui Moly (sans aftermarket oil cooler) it sheered a little bit only after 3 track days and thousands of street miles, per oil analysis. If you are debating oil and not getting it analyzed... stop.
     
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