Not sure I trust 5w20 anymore

[careature]

Ford is bumping up against its CAFE requirements and recommends SAE 5W-20 oil for most of its engines in the United States. It claims SAE 5W-20 is optimal for fuel efficiency and wear.

To determine if SAE 5W-20 oils provide the same level of protection as SAE 5W-30 oils, Dagenham Motors in England, one of the largest Ford dealers in Europe, was consulted. SAE 5W-30 is required for warranty purposes in England, and SAE 5W-20 is not even available. If SAE 5W-20 were better for both fuel economy and wear, why would Ford not recommend it for its same engines in Europe?

Not sure how credible the source is.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

The article is about CAFE vs wear in general.

The best oil for your vehicle depends on your driving habits, the age of your engine and the climate you drive in, but it is not necessarily the type of oil specified in the owner’s manual or stamped on the dipstick.

Although thinner oils with less antiwear additive outperform more robust products in the 96-hour fuel economy test, it is not clear that such products save fuel over the useful life of the engine.

Heresy, pure heresy...

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[Condor1970]

Not sure I trust it either. I think if anything, this engine may like 5w30 for low speed sheer strength more than anything.

 

[GT Pony]

Here's a good thread, and has some quotes made by people inside Ford:

http://mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112712

 

[88lx50]

That's some good info. I had planned on switching to 5w30 in the next few months. I think I am going to do it in the next few days.

 

[robwlf]

i run 5w30 and havnt looked back .. pennsoil or castrol euro

 

[Kinjirra]

Here's a good thread, and has some quotes made by people inside Ford:

http://mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112712

I wouldn't trust that since its going on 8 years out of date. The engines are two generations ahead and oil specs are different. That being said I'm running a 5w-30(Pennzoil plat ultra) due to not being stock and what I use the car for. A completely stock never modified car that expects full warranty prob should use the factory recommendations.

 

[NvrFinished]

I've been running 5w-30 in my car since I do HPDE's at various road courses in warm SoCal. After reading these articles and others, I believe I'm going to be bumping up to a 40W oil for my road course events and continue with the 5w-30 for daily driving.

 

[Mountain376]

I wouldn't trust that since its going on 8 years out of date. The engines are two generations ahead and oil specs are different. That being said I'm running a 5w-30(Pennzoil plat ultra) due to not being stock and what I use the car for. A completely stock never modified car that expects full warranty prob should use the factory recommendations.

And as the years have gone by, the anti-wear protection in oils has gone lower and lower due to emissions contributions and affecting emissions components. Also, many of your typical, off the shelf examples have scewed a bit to the thinner end of viscosity ratings range (partly due to synthetics and partly fuel economy). API/ILSAC, who “certify” oil, have links to the EPA and CARB. Think about that.

The narrative is still somewhat true.

The narrative of, “oh, production tolerances have improved, gotten tighter” for being a reason for thinner oils is an incorrect way to look at this.

This is especially true in a performance car and even more true in a performance car that gets used in an actual performance manner. In a typical daily driver, and using a quality oil, yeah, 5w-20 will do just fine.

Factory fill for GT500, Boss 302 and 13/14 Track Pack GT’s was 5w-50 (Motorcraft stuff shears to 40-weight quickly). I won’t mention GT350 as that engine sees much higher RPM and isn’t as relateable in this case. Look at what GM is doing for Corvette and changing the factory fill to 0w-40. GM doesn’t even recommend 5w-20 in the V8’s, they recommend 5w-30 as the fill. Look at the BMW and Mercedes performance cars: typically 0w-40.

 

[Kinjirra]

And as the years have gone by, the anti-wear protection in oils has gone lower and lower due to emissions contributions and affecting emissions components. Also, many of your typical, off the shelf examples have scewed a bit to the thinner end of viscosity ratings range (partly due to synthetics and partly fuel economy). API/ILSAC, who “certify” oil, have links to the EPA and CARB. Think about that.

The narrative is still somewhat true.

The narrative of, “oh, production tolerances have improved, gotten tighter” for being a reason for thinner oils is an incorrect way to look at this.

This is especially true in a performance car and even more true in a performance car that gets used in an actual performance manner. In a typical daily driver, and using a quality oil, yeah, 5w-20 will do just fine.

Factory fill for GT500, Boss 302 and 13/14 Track Pack GT’s was 5w-50 (Motorcraft stuff shears to 40-weight quickly). I won’t mention GT350 as that engine sees much higher RPM and isn’t as relateable in this case. Look at what GM is doing for Corvette and changing the factory fill to 0w-40. GM doesn’t even recommend 5w-20 in the V8’s, they recommend 5w-30 as the fill. Look at the BMW and Mercedes performance cars: typically 0w-40.

Not sure where your going with this.... My point was to treat a 7yr old article as such...7 years out of date. Also I stated I myself use a super quality 5w30 in my daily. I personally think a 5w-20 is too thin for what I use the car for...im not stock nor worried about warranty. I think comparing what ford recommends to what BWM recommends is somewhat silly. Apples or oranges comparison. Different engines, different laws and different uses. Same with comparing to any manufacturer other then ford itself. The Current series of GM/dodge engines are nothing like the coyote...again apples and oranges.

So once again... 7 year old article...treat as such. If your expecting warranty work..stick with the factory weight(doesn't have to be motocrap however) since they will send your oil off to check...happened to people before. If your like me make an informed choice based on use.

 

[GT Pony]

I wouldn't trust that since its going on 8 years out of date. The engines are two generations ahead and oil specs are different.

Ford engine tolerances aren't any different now then they were 7~8 years ago. Two factors in oil properties prevent engine wear: 1) viscosity and 2) anti-wear additives. Viscosity is the primary propertiy that keeps parts separated with a thin shearing film of oil. Anti-wear additives help prevent wear when the viscosity can't keep parts 100% separated and metal-to-metal contact occurs. I'm also bumping up to a 5W-30 even for mostly normal street driving because I want a good first line of defense against engine wear - specifically more viscosity.

It's no secret that Ford went to specifying 5W-20 (and back specifying on older engines) because if CAFE.

 

[17LightningGT]

I'll be honest, I just switched to 5w-30 in my 2018.

When i first bought the car, it had sat inside a dealers showroom for 7 or so months. I put the break in miles on it(1000 miles), and then changed to 5w20 mobil and motorcraft filter. Now with 3700 miles on it, I changed it again with 5w30.

In the 2018 owners manual, ford even states that before any track event, oil and filter should be changed with 5w30, and then after the event, changed back to 5w20.

Im probably skipping the change back to 5w20 portion. Owners manual says the car can run on it, and they recommend it for track type driving. It obviously means that for harder use, the 5w20 cant provide the protection the car needs.

 

[GT Pony]

In the 2018 owners manual, ford even states that before any track event, oil and filter should be changed with 5w30, and then after the event, changed back to 5w20.

The main reason Ford says to change back to 5W-20 after track use is again because of CAFE. Running 5W-30 all the time isn't going to hurt these engines. Roush won't warranty their cars unless you run 5W-50 all the time. If a heavier oil than 5W-20 was going to damage the engine, Roush wouldn't even think of that oil viscosity.

 

[Mountain376]

Ford engine tolerances aren't any different now then they were 7~8 years ago. Two factors in oil properties prevent engine wear: 1) viscosity and 2) anti-wear additives. Viscosity is the primary propertiy that keeps parts separated with a thin shearing film of oil. Anti-wear additives help prevent wear when the viscosity can't keep parts 100% separated and metal-to-metal contact occurs. I'm also bumping up to a 5W-30 even for mostly normal street driving because I want a good first line of defense against engine wear - specifically more viscosity.

It's no secret that Ford went to specifying 5W-20 (and back specifying on older engines) because if CAFE.

Yup. This.

And those anti-wear additives you speak of have been reduced API/ILSAC rating to API/ILSAC rating since the "articles in question" came out. Yes, there have been other additives put in as compensation of what these additives used to do, but they are not as effective. If you haven't guessed, I'm talking ZDDP.

Cranking and pumping losses is now something the OEM's look at. With this subject, cranking losses are relevant to oil - the thinner, the better the flow, cold and hot.

The third thing oil does is act as a coolant.

Also, the thicker the oil, the more heat it can take before "thinning". A lot of people talk about "break down". Yeah, that's a thing, but the "thinning" is a far sooner reality than "break down". You get "thinner" and you increase the potential wear for a mechanical component under load.

 

[Mountain376]

The main reason Ford says to change back to 5W-20 after track use is again because of CAFE. Running 5W-30 all the time isn't going to hurt these engines. Roush won't warranty their cars unless you run 5W-50 all the time. If a heavier oil than 5W-20 was going to damage the engine, Roush wouldn't even think of that oil viscosity.

The other part is the TI-VCT system. I cannot comment on the design book-ends, but I will say, I am sure there is a maximum viscosity at which something like the VCT solenoids do not work that well. Just a thought point...

 

[GT Pony]

The other part is the TI-VCT system. I cannot comment on the design book-ends, but I will say, I am sure there is a maximum viscosity at which something like the VCT solenoids do not work that well. Just a thought point...

Roush wouldn't specify to use 5W-50 in their cars if it caused problems.

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