My Custom Exhaust 2.0: Muffler Delete

[Rough Hollow Man]

So the USPS in Maryland operates with the same level of competency and efficiency as they do in Texas? I'm shocked! When they finally give you what you paid for, we are anxious to see and hear your efforts. Carry on Zack...

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[zackmd1]

So that package I was waiting on... Finally arrived. It was an adapter for an Xbox 360 kinect sensor. With it I can now scan physical objects to import into CAD programs. So I have been busy lately...

 

[davekro]

Muffler delete in your future????

Maybe!
I was spending more time today trying to duplicate Blaster's success of no drone with his Magnaflows on his convertible. I was able to quell it excellently but with pipe that stuck out from the back way too far (4"!). When I cut of just 1", drone was back... I had the mufflers off, when I needed to move the car to let my wife into the garage, so drove it down the street w/o mufflers. WTF, no low rpm drone!!! It did resonate in the mid 2,000's under heavy acceleration. This finally got me off my OCD focus on fixing these mufflers and re-look at your solution!

Of the sh!t load of sample tips I have, I have (only) one DC Sport EX-1010S (2.5" & polished version of your EX-1012). I like it the most. Too bad the 2.25" does not come in polished. Working on my drone, it seems these resonated tips amplify (in my case my drone) not soften sound. Did you happen to try either just straight pipe out past the rear cut out (where a tip would end) or any other non resonated tips? I am curious of those sounds on a muffler delete.

I actually was on my way to O'Reilly's before closing to buy two 24" 2 1/2" extensions to slip over my tail pipes welded on adapters just to here it not from under the car... But I turned around and came back to read this thread and listen to YOUR sound clip. I may still due to the convertible jinx. LOL ;)

Hey fellas, now I am thoroughly confused. This thread "drones" on and on and I cannot understand which way to go. Since I have the V-6 vert, I would like a bit lower rumble from my exhaust for a very low cost...that might be asking for too much. I read elsewhere on this forum that 25 % of all new Mustangs have the V-6 so why have the mod companies not produced a reasonable exhaust for us? Maybe the V-6 owners do not mod as much, but there is a market out there. So as we sit right now, should I presume
that Zack has come up with the best low cost exhaust for our cars. If so, Zack there's some moola to be made.LOL. I do appreciate everyone's efforts. Thanks.

So RHM, Did you do an exhaust yet? Us V6 convertible exhaust modders gotta keep in touch!

Once USPS gets their head out of their a** and finds my package that was suppose to be delivered Monday I will be continuing work on the design of this exhaust! I have some plans that I hope work out and that I think you guys will like.

Zack, did your new CadCam tech create any changes to your exhaust? What was is it for, Mustang wise, that is.

 

[Rough Hollow Man]

Hi Dave, and no I haven't gotten any work done to modify my exhaust yet. Very much want to find something with no drone, sounds good, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg!
I want it all...I don't have a 1000 miles yet on her and I have been babying her...but I have floored her a few times and running up to 60 from a dead stop. It seems that her exhaust note is getting a little better since she's breaking in. Or this could be just my Imagination running away with me. Hope that you solve the riddle. Thanks and let us know.

 

[zackmd1]

Maybe!
I was spending more time today trying to duplicate Blaster's success of no drone with his Magnaflows on his convertible. I was able to quell it excellently but with pipe that stuck out from the back way too far (4"!). When I cut of just 1", drone was back... I had the mufflers off, when I needed to move the car to let my wife into the garage, so drove it down the street w/o mufflers. WTF, no low rpm drone!!! It did resonate in the mid 2,000's under heavy acceleration. This finally got me off my OCD focus on fixing these mufflers and re-look at your solution!

Of the sh!t load of sample tips I have, I have (only) one DC Sport EX-1010S (2.5" & polished version of your EX-1012). I like it the most. Too bad the 2.25" does not come in polished. Working on my drone, it seems these resonated tips amplify (in my case my drone) not soften sound. Did you happen to try either just straight pipe out past the rear cut out (where a tip would end) or any other non resonated tips? I am curious of those sounds on a muffler delete.

I actually was on my way to O'Reilly's before closing to buy two 24" 2 1/2" extensions to slip over my tail pipes welded on adapters just to here it not from under the car... But I turned around and came back to read this thread and listen to YOUR sound clip. I may still due to the convertible jinx. LOL ;)


Zack, did your new CadCam tech create any changes to your exhaust? What was is it for, Mustang wise, that is.

The original intention with the resonated tips was to tame some of the upper rpm tones. What I did not expect is what you noticed as well, the amplification of the sound. In my 2.0 exhaust I did not notice any increase in drone but rather the volume of the exhaust increased. If you listen to my teaser video, that was done with no tips and pipes where the mufflers should be.

The CAD program as allowed me to do many things! I have redesigned the axleback to eliminate the harsh 90+ degree bend and the two 20 degree bends in the delete pipe. It now contains only two bends which you can see in the overlay picture. On top of that I am using a different resonated tip that is a 12" long double walled 4" tip. This should help tame some of the harsh tones in my current setup. The best part about having it in a CAD file is that I can now produce part drawings with more accurate pipe bends!

 

[davekro]

The original intention with the resonated tips was to tame some of the upper rpm tones. What I did not expect is what you noticed as well, the amplification of the sound. In my 2.0 exhaust I did not notice any increase in drone but rather the volume of the exhaust increased. If you listen to my teaser video, that was done with no tips and pipes where the mufflers should be.

The CAD program as allowed me to do many things! I have redesigned the axleback to eliminate the harsh 90+ degree bend and the two 20 degree bends in the delete pipe. It now contains only two bends which you can see in the overlay picture. On top of that I am using a different resonated tip that is a 12" long double walled 4" tip. This should help tame some of the harsh tones in my current setup. The best part about having it in a CAD file is that I can now produce part drawings with more accurate pipe bends!

Zach,
I am learning a lot from all my experimenting with muffler outlet changes of different pipe dia & lengths as well as tip dia. and lengths and resonated vs. non resonated tips.

Trying to quell the drone from my (mis-labled and sold as 11365 :rant Magnaflow 11366 mufflers I am finding:
- Resonantor tips exasterbate the issue ( using 9" DS Sport EX-1010S & Spectre 22354 tips)
- If I stick a 2.25" x 11" long pipe in the muffler's outlet, the low frequency drone softens tremendously so as not to be annoying or hurt my ears. BUT that (unadorned) steel pipe sticks out 2.5" from the cut out.**
- I have found no double wall non resonated tips, unfortunately! When I put the 9" DS Sport resonated tip over this pipe so that the pipe end aligns with just where it flares out, this makes the top of the angled tip 3 7/8" out from cut out. Way too far!
- w/ no pipe insert, the 9" res tips result in 100% of the drone like I started with.
- Just cutting off 1" from the pipe insert/extension brought back the drone to unacceptible levels. (with & w/o the tip over it).
- I need to cut more pipe from in front of the muffler to get more room for longer pipe at the back. (which will involve time at muffler shop). :(

Before investing in this next step, with no assurance of success, I want to look into Zack's muffler delete.

So Zach, some questions:
1) On your teaser audio (50 year picture, right), you said it had juat a straight pipe. How far out past the painted cut out** would you say those pipes were?
2) With the pipes only, what were the pluses and minuses? I think your higher rpm minus note was what I heard as well with just the mufflers removed (pipe ending right behind axle). Mid 2000's rpm were too loud and obnoxious.
3) with the DC Sport 9" res tip, I assume you did not run any extra pipe inside the resonator to nullify any part of the resonator area, right?
4) I don't know what it would do, but you could 'adjust' the amount of resonator exposure by inserting diff lengths of 2 1/4" pipe inside the DS Sport's ≈ 3" long resonator area.

I may go to the local store to see if I can find two each of 24" and 18"
2 1/2" extension pipes to do a test on my car of a quick'n dirty muffler delete.

** This dimension is important and needs to be from the same place each time. I marked the top center of the cut out and use that exact point. Differing tip heights throw this dimension off, so be aware of that.

 

[zackmd1]

Zach,
I am learning a lot from all my experimenting with muffler outlet changes of different pipe dia & lengths as well as tip dia. and lengths and resonated vs. non resonated tips.

Trying to quell the drone from my (mis-labled and sold as 11365 :rant Magnaflow 11366 mufflers I am finding:
- Resonantor tips exasterbate the issue ( using 9" DS Sport EX-1010S & Spectre 22354 tips)
- If I stick a 2.25" x 11" long pipe in the muffler's outlet, the low frequency drone softens tremendously so as not to be annoying or hurt my ears. BUT that (unadorned) steel pipe sticks out 2.5" from the cut out.**
- I have found no double wall non resonated tips, unfortunately! When I put the 9" DS Sport resonated tip over this pipe so that the pipe end aligns with just where it flares out, this makes the top of the angled tip 3 7/8" out from cut out. Way too far!
- w/ no pipe insert, the 9" res tips result in 100% of the drone like I started with.
- Just cutting off 1" from the pipe insert/extension brought back the drone to unacceptible levels. (with & w/o the tip over it).
- I need to cut more pipe from in front of the muffler to get more room for longer pipe at the back. (which will involve time at muffler shop). :(

Before investing in this next step, with no assurance of success, I want to look into Zack's muffler delete.

So Zach, some questions:
1) On your teaser audio (50 year picture, right), you said it had juat a straight pipe. How far out past the painted cut out** would you say those pipes were?
2) With the pipes only, what were the pluses and minuses? I think your higher rpm minus note was what I heard as well with just the mufflers removed (pipe ending right behind axle). Mid 2000's rpm were too loud and obnoxious.
3) with the DC Sport 9" res tip, I assume you did not run any extra pipe inside the resonator to nullify any part of the resonator area, right?
4) I don't know what it would do, but you could 'adjust' the amount of resonator exposure by inserting diff lengths of 2 1/4" pipe inside the DS Sport's ≈ 3" long resonator area.

I may go to the local store to see if I can find two each of 24" and 18"
2 1/2" extension pipes to do a test on my car of a quick'n dirty muffler delete.

** This dimension is important and needs to be from the same place each time. I marked the top center of the cut out and use that exact point. Differing tip heights throw this dimension off, so be aware of that.

I try to answer the questions as best as I can!

1) I am assuming the painted cutout is a reference to the rear valence? If so my straight pipes were about lined up with the cutout to just a bit behind. Because of this there might have been some resonance from waves reflecting off of the inside of the valence.

2) Pluses: Smooth note at idle, Decent acceleration volume with acceptable acceleration drone/resonance levels.

Minuses: Raspy high rpm notes.

3) Currently there is no pipe covering the resonance section of the DC Sport tips

4) I plan to try this this weekend to see if the mid 2000's acceleration drone can be tamed. I a prepared to sacrifice some high RPM sound to cure this. Per the results of the test I will modify my final design to include a resonated tip or a standard double walled tip.

 

[zackmd1]

Ok so results of my tests today!

The DC Sport tips are greatly amplifying the exhaust note. I added two small 2.25" pipes inside the tips to bypass the resonated section of the Sport. There wasn't much change in idle volume but during revs and under acceleration there was a definite change in volume. I am hesitant to say significant but at some points it almost sounded stock in terms of volume.

So the main purpose of this test, drone reduction. The mid 2000's acceleration drone was still present with the pipes in place but there was a significant reduction in overall volume in this specific range.

The conclusion? For me the current acceleration drone is no issue at all and the more aggressive and loud note is more then enough to overcome it's shortcomings in the mid 2000's. With that said if someone is looking for a quieter exhaust then a smaller non resonated tip should be used in a muffler delete.

 

[davekro]

I try to answer the questions as best as I can!

1) I am assuming the painted cutout is a reference to the rear valence? If so my straight pipes were about lined up with the cutout to just a bit behind. Because of this there might have been some resonance from waves reflecting off of the inside of the valence.

2) Pluses: Smooth note at idle, Decent acceleration volume with acceptable acceleration drone/resonance levels.

Minuses: Raspy high rpm notes.

3) Currently there is no pipe covering the resonance section of the DC Sport tips

4) I plan to try this this weekend to see if the mid 2000's acceleration drone can be tamed. I a prepared to sacrifice some high RPM sound to cure this. Per the results of the test I will modify my final design to include a resonated tip or a standard double walled tip.

1) Yes, I meant rear valence (I measure from center of outside of lip).

3) "Raspy high rpm notes." for straight pipe. How does the resonated DC Sport tip differ in this range? I'd assume it would make this range sound much louder and less desireable, but maybe it changes it in other ways?

Ok so results of my tests today!

A) The DC Sport tips are greatly amplifying the exhaust note. I added two small 2.25" pipes inside the tips to bypass the resonated section of the Sport. There wasn't much change in idle volume but during revs and under acceleration there was a definite change in volume. I am hesitant to say significant but at some points it almost sounded stock in terms of volume.

B) So the main purpose of this test, drone reduction. The mid 2000's acceleration drone was still present with the pipes in place but there was a significant reduction in overall volume in this specific range.

C) The conclusion? For me the current acceleration drone is no issue at all and the more aggressive and loud note is more then enough to overcome it's shortcomings in the mid 2000's. With that said if someone is looking for a quieter exhaust then a smaller non resonated tip should be used in a muffler delete.

Zach,
A) Curious how you were able to make that insert stay inside the DC Sport tip for the test drive.

B) Same as Q' as 3) above... what was difference between the two set ups in the mid 2000's?

C) "current acceleration drone" this refers to the DC Sport res tip w/o pipe insert, correct?

The only non res tips I can find that are double wall (so you get good looks of larger .o.d plus the quieter (non amplifying) inner dimension are +/- 5" long (the wide part). FLowmaster, Borla. I prefer the look of the ≈7" (wide part) length of these 9" (overall length) DC Sport tips.

I will still go ahead with my jury rig test with 24" (& 18" with 9" res tips added) straight pipes to see what the 'convertible factor' has in store for me. THEN decide if I chop more pipe off and move my Magnaflows (only 1"- 1 1/2" :() further forward. The quest continues.
Thanks for your pioneering here Zack.

 

[Rough Hollow Man]

I feel rather guilty sitting here in the middle of America, as Dave on the west coast and Zack on the east coast, fight the V-6 exhaust battles. Soldier on guys. We appreciate ya'lls efforts!

 

[davekro]

I tried a muffler delete test set up and it was too loud on my convertible (for these 61 year old ears ;)).

I will continue by moving my Magnaflow mufflers further forward.
details here:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=602350#post602350

 

[larry1990]

I did the muffler delete and xpipe setup sounds great to me!!! I get compliments all time. Drones like crazy but i dont mind it. Check it out

 

[V6junkie]

Larry can you possibly make another video maybe a couple of drive bys and a few revs from a little bit more distance. I'm right on the edge of doing the x pipe or maybe even the magnaflow resonated x pipe... Car sounds great I just need that extra push thanks if you can help me out and anyone else interested

 

[larry1990]

Larry can you possibly make another video maybe a couple of drive bys and a few revs from a little bit more distance. I'm right on the edge of doing the x pipe or maybe even the magnaflow resonated x pipe... Car sounds great I just need that extra push thanks if you can help me out and anyone else interested

Yea sure no problem!!!

 

[V6junkie]

Thanks man that'd be awesome :clap2:

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