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Mustang vs 2020 Supra

TomcatDriver

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So the covers are off on the 2020 Supra. I had pretty much dismissed the Supra because I figured it was going to be priced about the same as a Z4, or maybe more. That would have put the turbo 4 at about $50K and the turboI I6 close to $60K, which I considered non-competitive. However it looks like the 4 is not going to be released to the NA market initially, and the base M58 powered is going to be $49.9K with some nice features, really right in line with the price of the GTPP 401A with active exhaust. The Supra gives up about 125HP, but weighs in 500lbs less. Base comes with ultraseude/Alcantera seats and I think a digital dash.




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Lawguy85

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is going to be $49.9K with some nice features, really right in line with the price of the GTPP 401A with active exhaust.
I priced a GT Premium with 10 speed, performance pack 1, digital cluster + active exhaust for $49.5k. So basically fully loaded V8 Mustang v. base I6 Supra (6.5" screen, non-touch, no CarPlay). I'd be curious to see how the aftermarket treats the Supra, OEM for OEM Mustang looks much more compelling IMO but if tuning shops start releasing serious power adders, aggressive aero and tons of carbon fiber bits it could capture the hearts (and disposable income) of millenials like me who grew up on Fast and Furious films and Best Motoring DVDs from Import Tuner magazines.
 

Hack

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Supra needs more power and a manual transmission before I would even consider it. The styling certainly doesn't sell the car IMO.
 

TomcatDriver

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Supra needs more power and a manual transmission before I would even consider it. The styling certainly doesn't sell the car IMO.
Well, they are advertising a 4.1 0-60, which is certainly close enough to a Mustang to where driver skill is far more important than HP. A couple tenths make zero difference except at the drag strip. The same engine is rated at 382HP in the Z4 (vice 335 in the Supra) so the engine is certainly capable of more with trivial effort, or it's just severely underrated.

No amount of body work can change the basic proportions, which are very Z4 with the cabin pushed way back. I have some Supra love from my youth. My parents bought a Gen3 when I was in college and I pretty much adopted it, and my first car purchase after college was a lightly used Gen4, which I proceeded to drive for the next 14 years (wish I never sold it). That being said, I don't really see this BMW/Toyota hybrid being a 200K near zero maintenance machine like my old Supra (and by hybrid, it's a BMW with some Toyota styling, tuning and badges).

Again, I was pretty sure Toyota was going to blow it and overprice the new Supra and they didn't.
 

Chad11491

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If it had a targa and a manual i'd be all over it. As it is, it's not the prettiest car out there, but it doesn't look BAD in my opinion. The ZF 8 speed is a lot of fun, but for a 2 seater weekend toy (what my use case for it would be), i'd want a stick just for the fun. at 4.1s 0-60 it doesn't need any more power, and it's probably way under rated as most bmw motors are. Looks like great value as a Cayman fighter if anyone would be adventurous enough to take a "toyota" over a porsche.
 

sdiver68

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With any decent amount of options, I bet the Supra is closer to $55k with little room for negotiation. The Mustang will go out the door for a bare minimum of 10% off and often more.
 

TomcatDriver

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With any decent amount of options, I bet the Supra is closer to $55k with little room for negotiation. The Mustang will go out the door for a bare minimum of 10% off and often more.
Japanese cars tend to have a much simpler option sheet than American cars, which in turn are dead simple compared to the German brands. Off the bat it sounds like there are two option packages 3.0 ($49.9) and 3.0 premium ($54K). The base 3.0 is pretty well appointed, although the details in the press are a little contradictory. There is a premium audio and driver assist package. It looks like the basic car is the same, with the same adaptive suspension, transmission, etc. Main differences are inside in the audio/infotainment and leather vs Ultraseude interior. It appears base is a 6" non-touch with no android auto or carplay, which seems criminal in 2019. $19K Elantra's have better.

Again, I thought it was going to come in at $50K for the I4 and more like $60K for the I6. Pricing is well below BMW or Cayman. It is at least in the ballpark with the Mustang, and I think that's good for everyone. I doubt it's going to be as rock solid as my Gen3. The ONLY mechanical repair I ever needed was the direct result of me trying to traverse a flooded intersction. Even then, after draining a gallon of water out of the engine and changing a timing belt it ran for another 13 years without a hickup before being sold to a very happy 19 year old.
 

sdiver68

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Japanese cars tend to have a much simpler option sheet than American cars, which in turn are dead simple compared to the German brands. Off the bat it sounds like there are two option packages 3.0 ($49.9) and 3.0 premium ($54K). The base 3.0 is pretty well appointed, although the details in the press are a little contradictory. There is a premium audio and driver assist package. It looks like the basic car is the same, with the same adaptive suspension, transmission, etc. Main differences are inside in the audio/infotainment and leather vs Ultraseude interior. It appears base is a 6" non-touch with no android auto or carplay, which seems criminal in 2019.
Yep, nailed it. I would buy the premium with safety options. 55k.

Lol @ German cars. P-cars in particular. Do I want the leather, plastic, or suede left armrest. Next, same 3 options for the right armrest. Not to mention color options for each material. Custom match to your prized Gucci suitcase? No problem.
 

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Eritas

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I don't see the new Supra competing with a GT.

My have times changed:

1993 Supra: 320hp 3.0L TT I-6
1993 Mustang GT: 205hp 5.0L V8 (235hp for Cobra).
 

nastang87xx

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Again, I was pretty sure Toyota was going to blow it and overprice the new Supra and they didn't.
If you look at inflation, the new Supra isn't THAT outrageously priced. In 1996, $47K was not cheap at all and if you do the inflation calculation, that's well into Porsche 718 territory. A very nice 718.
 

9secondko

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Mustang beats it. For less.

Not really a compelling car.

Styling = worse than the old Supra,

Power = the same as the old Supra.

There really isn’t a reason for the car to exist. It really hurts the heritage of the car to come out after all these years with... this.
 

9secondko

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I don't see the new Supra competing with a GT.

My have times changed:

1993 Supra: 320hp 3.0L TT I-6
1993 Mustang GT: 205hp 5.0L V8 (235hp for Cobra).
Yep. Back then, the Supra was competing with Corvette, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, and Dodge Stealth.

Now, it’s competing with.. 4 cylinder base model Mustangs.

The new Mustang GT looks better, is quicker and faster, and costs less.

It’s an easy choice.

The old Supra was a cult superstar.

the new one is a cult rite victim.

_____


That 235 hp Cobra was dang fast for its power level though. Great car.
 

TomcatDriver

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Yep. Back then, the Supra was competing with Corvette, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, and Dodge Stealth.

Now, it’s competing with.. 4 cylinder base model Mustangs.

The new Mustang GT looks better, is quicker and faster, and costs less.

It’s an easy choice.

The old Supra was a cult superstar.

the new one is a cult rite victim.

_____


That 235 hp Cobra was dang fast for its power level though. Great car.
Come on, it's going to be a great BMW. It's a hard-top Z4 at a discount price.
 

Eritas

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Yep. Back then, the Supra was competing with Corvette, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, and Dodge Stealth.

Now, it’s competing with.. 4 cylinder base model Mustangs.

The new Mustang GT looks better, is quicker and faster, and costs less.

It’s an easy choice.

The old Supra was a cult superstar.

the new one is a cult rite victim.

_____


That 235 hp Cobra was dang fast for its power level though. Great car.
Its acceleration was in line with all the cars you mentioned (in addition the NSX, RX7, 911). I don't think I'd call it a "great car" though.

Base Supra ($33900 = $58,377)
Supra Turbo ($39,990 = $68,710)
Mustang GT ($20,390 = $35,112)
Mustang Cobra ($21,578 = $37,158)
Cobra R ($25,692 = $44,243)

A GT86 is $25K, the Supra is $50K, they should offer an M4-powered Supra in the 60-70s, that would put it back in its original category.
 

ugstang17

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Over priced for 75% of Gen Y-ers to afford new I suspect. Plus no room for baby seats it appears. And not enough power (or cylinders) to interest most Gen X, gappers, or boomers seeking a two door sports car now that they have a little cash and the kids are gone. I see this car in the USA going the way of the Buick "Regretta" er uh....Reatta.

That said I always appreciated the Gen 2 body Supra. Loved that wedge and sharp lines. Went to crap in 86. 93 for some reason was okay....way better than gen 3, but nothing IMHO would compare to the 81-85 body. Nice interiors as well.
 

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