Multiple Codes and Dealership Trust...

[TonyNJ]

@Cobra Jet @honeybadger @Tomster @shogun32 @Houston Kid @Ewheels @The Chairman @Bikeman315 @ChitownStang
@rxsamg @Seanuf99 @Epiphany and anyone else that can intelligently chime in, please do...

My 2018 GT car's check engine light went on and my Fordpass logged 5 different "Service Engine Soon" warnings all at the same time:

1: Detected a Misfire and the start stop feature (if equipped) could be disabled when this fault is present

2: Engine Control System Detected one of the temperature sensors are not agreeing with another, could effect start stop feature and be disabled

3: Engine Control System has Detected the Intake Manifold Runner Control Valve not operating as expected

4: Engine Control System has Detected Lower than expected reading from intake Manifold Runner Control Sensor

5: Powetrain control system has Detected that it is unable to fully open the active grille shutters

So I drop it off at the dealership, and they send me this via text:

The intake Manifold is covered under warranty. But the active grille shutters, and the PCM all going together seems like a lot of problems in one fell swoop. The Fordpass app clearly told me the shutters faulted so I don't think the dealership is inventing problems.

My question is, would you guys have them do everything they are suggesting in this estimate and just eat it? I'm inclined to have them do the Manifold warranty work and the PCM only. Then either do the shutters myself, or see if it corrects itself after the Manifold and PCM are fixed. I believe the active grille shutters aren't a huge issue and can even be disabled or removed from what I've read. $1500 seems to be a lot of that issue.

Of course my warranty expired in April and I didn't extend it because I don't abuse the can and maintain it properly. Maybe time to call zach@granger and get that extended warranty.

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[honeybadger]

I've never seen this before. Interesting - but sounds like maybe a ground or other electrical issue to me. It would be weird for those things to all go out separately on their own, IMHO.

 

[Tomster]

Which car is this? Your '18 GT?

 

[TonyNJ]

Which car is this? Your '18 GT?

Yes. 18GT, sorry.

 

[Tomster]

I don't have an '18 service manual to chase those codes down. I have the '17 and '20 manuals. They probably don't differ too much. I will take a look later, but usually those codes require tests to troubleshoot. Im afraid there is no easy way to go about this.

Edit:
Isn't that all powertrain? Doesn't your powertrain warranty cover 5 years/60,000?

 

[Cobra Jet]

The first batch of codes, the only one II see that could be a sensor failure or loose wire/connector is the P0111, which relates to the IAT sensor. The others, the P0316 and the P0300 are most likely being tripped due to the intake (IMRC system) issue.

Another thing too:
If they do ANY engine work, they would have to do a crank relearn procedure, it's required for ANY major engine or transmission work - which is essentially a PCM action item. So if they're not charging for the crank relearn with the replacement of the intake, IMO, they should not be charging you for a PCM reprogram at all. Bring that aspect up to then as well as the next paragraph below...

What they SHOULD do is this - clear all DTC's, replace the intake, do the crank relearn and see what happens after the car is started. My guess is, if the IAT sensor isn't bad - all (3) codes in the first batch won't appear again with the intake fix.

As for the active grille shutters - most likely either a harness, connector OR the AG motor is failing. They should be able to replace the AG motor, no? I don't have an AG setup, BUT there are threads on here regarding the AG issue... To ME, the AG isn't major issue, because there's been folks on here who have removed that unit completely. It's up to you if you want to pay that out to have it fixed or not...

The AG system is supposedly for "fuel savings" at speed on the highway, it serves NO other function or performance to the engine or vehicle at all. You could remove the system entirely and there's no detrimental affects at all. In fact, some S550's don't even have the system at all.... so that tells ya right there - it's a non-essential part... save the $$&.

Check this thread that has some AG info:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...hutter-motor-install-ags.177097/#post-3578011

IMO, they're trying to rook you for some $$$.

 

[Tomster]

And for anyone else who reads this:

Buy the extended warranty if you plan to keep the car beyond 3 years.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I don't have an '18 service manual to chase those codes down. I have the '17 and '20 manuals. They probably don't differ too much. I will take a look later, but usually those codes require tests to troubleshoot. Im afraid there is no easy way to go about this.

Edit:
Isn't that all powertrain? Doesn't your powertrain warranty cover 5 years/60,000?

Yes Powertrain is 5/60 on all Fords... but not sure if the AG system is covered or even a part of the PT warranty.

Sensors to engine - you wouid have to read up on the 5/60 and see what is or is. It covered. Owners Manual should lay it out.

 

[Tomster]

IMO, they're trying to rook you for some $$$

Yes, this.

 

[TonyNJ]

I don't have an '18 service manual to chase those codes down. I have the '17 and '20 manuals. They probably don't differ too much. I will take a look later, but usually those codes require tests to troubleshoot. Im afraid there is no easy way to go about this.

Edit:
Isn't that all powertrain? Doesn't your powertrain warranty cover 5 years/60,000?

Thank you. The grille shutters is a cooling system issue. So I'm guessing that's why it's outside of the 3/36. The PCM? That's Powetrain Control Module...so you've got a good point... Powertrain. Unless that's specifically engine and trans mechanical only warranty. I'm hoping to be fully educated before I go to the dealership Monday.

 

[TonyNJ]

The first batch of codes, the only one II see that could be a sensor failure or loose wire/connector is the P0111, which relates to the IAT sensor. The others, the P0316 and the P0300 are most likely being tripped due to the intake (IMRC system) issue.

Another thing too:
If they do ANY engine work, they would have to do a crank relearn procedure, it's required for ANY major engine or transmission work - which is essentially a PCM action item. So if they're not charging for the crank relearn with the replacement of the intake, IMO, they should not be charging you for a PCM reprogram at all. Bring that aspect up to then as well as the next paragraph below...

What they SHOULD do is this - clear all DTC's, replace the intake, do the crank relearn and see what happens after the car is started. My guess is, if the IAT sensor isn't bad - all (3) codes in the first batch won't appear again with the intake fix.

As for the active grille shutters - most likely either a harness, connector OR the AG motor is failing. They should be able to replace the AG motor, no? I don't have an AG setup, BUT there are threads on here regarding the AG issue... To ME, the AG isn't major issue, because there's been folks on here who have removed that unit completely. It's up to you if you want to pay that out to have it fixed or not...

The AG system is supposedly for "fuel savings" at speed on the highway, it serves NO other function or performance to the engine or vehicle at all. You could remove the system entirely and there's no detrimental affects at all. In fact, some S550's don't even have the system at all.... so that tells ya right there - it's a non-essential part... save the $$&.

Check this thread that has some AG info:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...hutter-motor-install-ags.177097/#post-3578011

IMO, they're trying to rook you for some $$$.

Thank you for the sage insight. My gut told me something was amiss.

The other tricky part is the "Diagnostic fee if repairs are declined". Well I'm not declining the intake Manifold replacement under warranty. So I'm curious if the policy is that I have to accept ALL the repairs? The intake replacement must be an expensive repair. Clearly the main issue. So I'm going to lobby that they waive that Diagnostic fee.

 

[TonyNJ]

I don't have an '18 service manual to chase those codes down. I have the '17 and '20 manuals. They probably don't differ too much. I will take a look later, but usually those codes require tests to troubleshoot. Im afraid there is no easy way to go about this.

Edit:
Isn't that all powertrain? Doesn't your powertrain warranty cover 5 years/60,000?

@Cobra Jet
Well, well, well, look at this. Cut right from Fords 2018 Warranty Guide...

Why would they say it's not covered? Because it's a programming issue and not a replacement?

 

[Cobra Jet]

@Cobra Jet
Well, well, well, look at this. Cut right from Fords 2018 Warranty Guide...

Why would they say it's not covered? Because it's a programming issue and not a replacement?

Glad you checked, right? Not many folks realize what the Powertrain covers and it covers quite a bit.

I would point that out, because whether the PCM needs to be reflashed for a warranty repair OR say a PCM replacement, to me they should not be trying to charge you for any PCM programming.
--------

The AG shutters, if it were me, I'd tell them it's not a priority for you at least not at that expense.

So here's a complete explanation from Ford to what the AGS system does - found it on the Ford Austrailia site - same system in the US products:
https://www.ford.com.au/technology/active-grill-shutter/

The only way the AGS system is really beneficial is when on a highway and at sustained highway speeds - and if traveling in such a way every day....

Again, my opinion is to skip that repair. I'd skip it, remove them completely and never look back.

The AGS system has been problematic and there's quite a few posts here for the S550's that have it and where the motor has failed. Like I had posted earlier, quite a few folks have removed fully functioning units, aside from ones that have failed.

I don't see why your Ford Dealer is wanting to replace the entire system - they shouid be able to replace the motor. And that cost they quoted you, is that including labor to R&R the front bumper cover and just replace the motor, or they trying to replace the entire AGS system?

If the system was really required and that effective, it would be on all S550's, but it's not.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Thank you for the sage insight. My gut told me something was amiss.

The other tricky part is the "Diagnostic fee if repairs are declined". Well I'm not declining the intake Manifold replacement under warranty. So I'm curious if the policy is that I have to accept ALL the repairs? The intake replacement must be an expensive repair. Clearly the main issue. So I'm going to lobby that they waive that Diagnostic fee.

IMO, regarding the diagnostics charge:
If the only work you have them do is the intake, they are doing the intake under warranty, which results in no cost to the customer at all. Any warranty work is covered under the warranty provisions, including their diagnostic time, labor and any parts. You shouldn't be paying a dime.

 

[ChitownStang]

@Cobra Jet @honeybadger @Tomster @shogun32 @Houston Kid @Ewheels @The Chairman @Bikeman315 @ChitownStang
@rxsamg @Seanuf99 @Epiphany and anyone else that can intelligently chime in, please do...

My 2018 GT car's check engine light went on and my Fordpass logged 5 different "Service Engine Soon" warnings all at the same time:

1: Detected a Misfire and the start stop feature (if equipped) could be disabled when this fault is present

2: Engine Control System Detected one of the temperature sensors are not agreeing with another, could effect start stop feature and be disabled

3: Engine Control System has Detected the Intake Manifold Runner Control Valve not operating as expected

4: Engine Control System has Detected Lower than expected reading from intake Manifold Runner Control Sensor

5: Powetrain control system has Detected that it is unable to fully open the active grille shutters

So I drop it off at the dealership, and they send me this via text:

The intake Manifold is covered under warranty. But the active grille shutters, and the PCM all going together seems like a lot of problems in one fell swoop. The Fordpass app clearly told me the shutters faulted so I don't think the dealership is inventing problems.

My question is, would you guys have them do everything they are suggesting in this estimate and just eat it? I'm inclined to have them do the Manifold warranty work and the PCM only. Then either do the shutters myself, or see if it corrects itself after the Manifold and PCM are fixed. I believe the active grille shutters aren't a huge issue and can even be disabled or removed from what I've read. $1500 seems to be a lot of that issue.

Of course my warranty expired in April and I didn't extend it because I don't abuse the can and maintain it properly. Maybe time to call zach@granger and get that extended warranty.

Tony, I wish I could add to this but looks like everyone beat me to it, Great advice guys! Dealerships sure are getting creative these days to rip off there customers.
I really hope you get it all covered under the powertrain man, sounds like it should be.

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