Maximum Safe RPM?

[Zinc03svt]

Lol. Most late model performance autos have paddle shifters if you must choose the gear. Yall can mentally masterbate all you want, but A10 on the street Is my pick. Running 10’s w/ bolt on’s N/A is happening. Next...

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[BmacIL]

Although this is really off topic, I'll bite. I've owned over 30 cars over the last couple of decades. I was driving before many of you were probably born LOL. I would say about 25 of the cars have been manuals and a handful were automatics. I've had crappy GM 3 speed autos, halfway decent GM 4-speeds (4L60E), a Jatco [Nissan] 5-speed in a 350z, a lexus with a 6-speed and a BMW with a ZF 6 speed. I've also had both the dodge 46RE 4-speed and the 45RFE which is a 5,6, or 7 speed depending on how you look at it, and the worst auto transmission ever conceived, the Dodge Ultrastar 62TE. I occasionally drive a 3/4 ton suburban at work with the 4L80e which is renowned for it's strength.

I've had a few honda manuals, isuzu manual (In a Pontiac Fiero GT), a few getregs, a T5, and a few T56's and now the MT82. My SRT-4 had the new venture gear T850. I think my S-10 had a new venture gearbox that was also kind of lousy. I don't remember what kind of gearbox my VW's had from the early 80's but they might as well have been a piece of boiled asparagus stuck in a bowl of oatmeal.

Of all of the autos, the ZF 6 speed in the BMW was (by far) the best. In sport mode, it shifted fairly quickly and most of the time would hold gears, even around corners. I sold the car because even though it was the best auto I had ever driven, I didn't like it.

I remember the T5 in my fox body being notchy, and the MT82 is (to me) very similar. In one way, I like it because it is very mechanical, but in other ways, it does not shift as good as the T56's. The Honda FWD transmissions were works of art for remote shifters, and the T850 transmission was designed for a turbo diesel european minivan and it felt like it, shift quality was abysmal, however it did take twice the torque and ran fine for over 100,000 miles.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I think I fit the mold for not wanting a manual, but I specifically won't consider cars if they don't have manuals. Rumors are the mid-engine C8 is going to be DCT-only, and every Benz is an auto except for the pathetic MLK250.

Yes, automatics (now) are faster. They can modulate torque better, shift faster, sometimes have more gears and allow you to take off with a torque brake opposed to (at best) a two-step with a manual. It's also much safer for the driveline. So why the manual?

1. Automatics cannot know what gear I want to be in right now, nor in 5 seconds when a gap is going to open in traffic
2. While automatics do offer various methods of manual modes, many of them do not respond when asked (Not to be confused with shifting speed)
3. Many automatics do not compression brake the same as a manual. I use this "feature" all the time.
4. No price can be put on the "one with the car" feeling I get with the manual. It represents something archaic, as if operating a paper mill, or a tractor or a piece of industrial machinery. For example, if you grab the shifter handle, you can feel the whirring of the shafts through the shift forks. If you don't use the clutch right, the car punishes/embarrasses you; whereas a good rev-matched downshift rewards you... The automatic, even exceptional ones, fail to reproduce this visceral feeling. This is really no different than a guitarist arguing tubes sound better than transistors (I'm in this camp), original audio sounds better than compressed audio (Also me), and LP's sound better than CD's (Not me, although LP's do have more character). If you think about it, for drag racing, the Tesla is probably going to out-pull, especially on an 1/8 mile. Just because it's technically better doesn't make it all that much fun.

What's best? Whatever is in your car, because you bought it to suit you. For me, I row my own gears in a car, and I use an auto for my trucks/SUVs/minivans because the torque converter makes hauling bulk materials much easier.

 

[Grimace427]

Yall can mentally masterbate all you want, but A10 on the street Is my pick.

This is usually how I imagine auto drivers acting when talking about their 1/4 mile times.

 

[EFI]

How did we go from a discussion on max RPM the engine can handle to a full blown manual vs. auto debate and personal preferences on the matter?

Let's leave that discussion for another thread please. I'm curious to see other responses on the RPM capabilities of the engine, not what people's transmission preference is

 

[Grimace427]

You're right, shame on me I'm usually better than that.

 

[Andy13186]

(kind of off topic but also relevant)

Ive had 3 manual cars, 2 being mustangs , one with tr3650 then the mt82. Blew out the 2011 gt mt82 2nd gear syncro took them 97 days to repair it (not replace) and it wasnt even right in the end had problems with high speed lockout, sold that car because of that. Had got locked out of gear at high rpm many times, missed gears like crazy in that too unfortunately when trying to shift fast. I did drive a 2018 gt manual and it did feel great with the new shifter though.. idk how it would compared to my 2011 in hard driving.


Then I got a TR6060 in my 2009 V, that transmission was so much superior to the other 2 in every way. I missed 90% less shifts in the tr6060 (like once a month at most compared to 10x a month in the mt82), never got locked out, it handled no lift shifting 3rd to 4th gear like 200 times at 100+ mph at about 700 RPM over the stock rev limiter and 200 hp over the stock HP. Totaled that car though. Would never get another mt82 mustang, didnt think to consider an older gt500 and I wasnt really considering the gt350 because of pricing (although now that I look back, used ones are basically the same price as a new GT) so I went 10 speed, and I dont miss manual. Paddle shifters work if you want the control or engine braking, they shift fast when you are at full throttle, I admit I use the paddle shifters almost 100% of the time that I am driving for fun since I want the control. Only thing miss a bit is dropping the clutch into a burnout i guess.


(ON TOPIC question) Anyway has anyone heard of any problems happening with the 10r80 at these increased RPMS?

 

[Zinc03svt]

This is usually how I imagine auto drivers acting when talking about their 1/4 mile times.

Hey, at least I actually could with the auto. Probably more enjoyable than shifting an mt-82. Lol.

 

[SVT-DADDY]

i think we are going to need another thread for that. lol

How did we go from a discussion on max RPM the engine can handle to a full blown manual vs. auto debate and personal preferences on the matter?

Let's leave that discussion for another thread please. I'm curious to see other responses on the RPM capabilities of the engine, not what people's transmission preference is

 

[CrashOverride]

How did we go from a discussion on max RPM the engine can handle to a full blown manual vs. auto debate and personal preferences on the matter?

Let's leave that discussion for another thread please. I'm curious to see other responses on the RPM capabilities of the engine, not what people's transmission preference is

I'm sorry and you're right. I'm new to these forums, but sometimes there are engineers from the actual company that post. I had that luxury when I had my mopar. If there is a coyote engineer in here, they might know what the safety factor is for these engines. If anyone has a service manager of a ford dealership as a buddy, they usually can reach out to a team of engineers. For Dodge it was called "Star" I think; and for GM (Back in the late 90's) it was called TAC or TEC, I can't remember how it was spelled. Those teams really know the bugs and the like...I don't know what the equivalent is/was. Again, back in the 90's my buddy's dad worked @ Romeo where they built the engines, but he retired a long time ago.

 

[Andy13186]

PBD puts 2018's limiter to 8200, atleast the autos and on e85. Ive hit it on accident a few times and logged 8292 rpm when I left it in paddle mode before trying to do a run, no problems yet as far as I can tell. And just fyi 8200 rpm in 1st gear in the 10 speed with 3.55's and oem pp1 tires is 40 mph.

I kind of wish it was lower though since anything above 8k is pointless it seems.. I wonder why they put the limiter so high? In neutral they limit you to 4500.

 

[Burkey]

Although this is really off topic, I'll bite. I've owned over 30 cars over the last couple of decades. I was driving before many of you were probably born LOL. I would say about 25 of the cars have been manuals and a handful were automatics. I've had crappy GM 3 speed autos, halfway decent GM 4-speeds (4L60E), a Jatco [Nissan] 5-speed in a 350z, a lexus with a 6-speed and a BMW with a ZF 6 speed. I've also had both the dodge 46RE 4-speed and the 45RFE which is a 5,6, or 7 speed depending on how you look at it, and the worst auto transmission ever conceived, the Dodge Ultrastar 62TE. I occasionally drive a 3/4 ton suburban at work with the 4L80e which is renowned for it's strength.

I've had a few honda manuals, isuzu manual (In a Pontiac Fiero GT), a few getregs, a T5, and a few T56's and now the MT82. My SRT-4 had the new venture gear T850. I think my S-10 had a new venture gearbox that was also kind of lousy. I don't remember what kind of gearbox my VW's had from the early 80's but they might as well have been a piece of boiled asparagus stuck in a bowl of oatmeal.

Of all of the autos, the ZF 6 speed in the BMW was (by far) the best. In sport mode, it shifted fairly quickly and most of the time would hold gears, even around corners. I sold the car because even though it was the best auto I had ever driven, I didn't like it.

I remember the T5 in my fox body being notchy, and the MT82 is (to me) very similar. In one way, I like it because it is very mechanical, but in other ways, it does not shift as good as the T56's. The Honda FWD transmissions were works of art for remote shifters, and the T850 transmission was designed for a turbo diesel european minivan and it felt like it, shift quality was abysmal, however it did take twice the torque and ran fine for over 100,000 miles.

I spend 2 hours a day in LA traffic, so I think I fit the mold for not wanting a manual, but I specifically won't consider cars if they don't have manuals. Rumors are the mid-engine C8 is going to be DCT-only, and every Benz is an auto except for the pathetic MLK250.

Yes, automatics (now) are faster. They can modulate torque better, shift faster, sometimes have more gears and allow you to take off with a torque brake opposed to (at best) a two-step with a manual. It's also much safer for the driveline. So why the manual?

1. Automatics cannot know what gear I want to be in right now, nor in 5 seconds when a gap is going to open in traffic
2. While automatics do offer various methods of manual modes, many of them do not respond when asked (Not to be confused with shifting speed)
3. Many automatics do not compression brake the same as a manual. I use this "feature" all the time.
4. No price can be put on the "one with the car" feeling I get with the manual. It represents something archaic, as if operating a paper mill, or a tractor or a piece of industrial machinery. For example, if you grab the shifter handle, you can feel the whirring of the shafts through the shift forks. If you don't use the clutch right, the car punishes/embarrasses you; whereas a good rev-matched downshift rewards you... The automatic, even exceptional ones, fail to reproduce this visceral feeling. This is really no different than a guitarist arguing tubes sound better than transistors (I'm in this camp), original audio sounds better than compressed audio (Also me), and LP's sound better than CD's (Not me, although LP's do have more character). If you think about it, for drag racing, the Tesla is probably going to out-pull, especially on an 1/8 mile. Just because it's technically better doesn't make it all that much fun.

What's best? Whatever is in your car, because you bought it to suit you. For me, I row my own gears in a car, and I use an auto for my trucks/SUVs/minivans because the torque converter makes hauling bulk materials much easier.

Not a single “proper” auto guy will understand a single word of what you just said.
Instead, they’ll simply throw times at you as if times are the ONLY thing that matters...
The rest of us are able to think like adults, applying the relevant filters to our purchasing procedure.
Many thanks for your contribution, warranted or not.

 

[Burkey]

8k limiter right here with the Whipple. OPG/CS done.
I’ve hit the limiter more than I’d like to recall.
Zero issues but I’d prefer to shift before it bounces.

 

[Zinc03svt]

Rev limiter and actual auto shift points are two different things. Setting the rev limiter to 8200 rpms is so you don’t bounce off it. Not good for opg’s. 18 manifold makes peak power around 7k. Mine is set for 7900 limit with 7500 actual shift points. I never wot manual shift.

 

[BmacIL]

18 manifold makes peak power around 7k

*7200

 

[Dr. Norts]

I have mine set @ 8k so I don't hit it. Auto shift points are 7200-7400,I can't exactly recall, it's been cold here for too long.

When using the paddles sometimes I'll shift around 7800 because the engine sounds amazing up there, I don't even care if it's done making power.

When stock I used to hit / bounce off it daily, haven't hit it once since changing it to 8k.
Stock OPG/CS.

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