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Max compression ratio (static) for pump gas?

Elp_jc

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I have a related question: Is the change from iron liners to PTWA had anything to do with the Gen3 CR/cams/timing/etc. changes? Or it was done just as a cost-saving measure? Curious about that. I know DI was mostly responsible for the 12.1:1 CR increase, but since the VooDoo engine has PTWA, I don't know if it was only done for cost reasons, or other beneficial reasons. Thx.
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D K

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Also ease of manufacture.

As the cylinder walls got even thinner, the engine picked up displacement also.

I have a related question: Is the change from iron liners to PTWA had anything to do with the Gen3 CR/cams/timing/etc. changes? Or it was done just as a cost-saving measure? Curious about that. I know DI was mostly responsible for the 12.1:1 CR increase, but since the VooDoo engine has PTWA, I don't know if it was only done for cost reasons, or other beneficial reasons. Thx.
 

engineermike

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I believe the PTWA lining is also harder and wears slower than cast iron.
 

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More compression??

Usually big cams take away compression, not add.
Yes, bigger cams take away compression due to overlap. Allows for a higher CR ratio at the same octane.
 

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TX5OH

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For what the OP asked, the classical estimation of DCR is a good way to determine what he should set his static. It’s not really capturing the true physics of what’s going on. But it’s close enough for low speed conditions. Which is more what we care about for detonation. The information I found for the Coyote is that in the parked location the IVC is 90.5 degrees. This puts the dcr in the 7’s. But that changes as rpm changes. Experience has shown that a dcr of 8.5:1 is about the highest you can go before detonation is going to get bad. I prefer 8.25:1.
 

engineermike

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... The information I found for the Coyote is that in the parked location the IVC is 90.5 degrees. This puts the dcr in the 7’s. But that changes as rpm changes. Experience has shown that a dcr of 8.5:1 is about the highest you can go before detonation is going to get bad. I prefer 8.25:1.
If you plug in 70.5 and 114.5, the actual range of IVC commanded, the DCR goes from 9.1 to 4.9. That’s a huge range and I don’t see how you could justify assuming the cam timing is static when it’s not. And as I pointed out earlier, later IVC would indicate lower DCR and less chance of detonation but we know for a fact that this isn’t actually what happens due to ram tuning.
 

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D K

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I dont think I would hesitate going to 12.5 on a Gen 2, but getting to 13 is something to think about.

Fortunately, pistons arent too crazy expensive to try out multiple sets, but it would definitely help knowing if its a possibility going in..

Some really good responses so far...
 

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Another possibility is to choose pistons that deliver 13/1 using the stock thickness gasket. If it’s just too much to control, you can get head gaskets that will drop it all the way to 11.4 or anything in between.
 

TX5OH

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If you plug in 70.5 and 114.5, the actual range of IVC commanded, the DCR goes from 9.1 to 4.9. That’s a huge range and I don’t see how you could justify assuming the cam timing is static when it’s not. And as I pointed out earlier, later IVC would indicate lower DCR and less chance of detonation but we know for a fact that this isn’t actually what happens due to ram tuning.
The OP wanted to know a ballpark max SCR they can possibly get away with. If you consider that the rpm range where detonation is more likely the dynamic effects are less. Simplifying it down to just the effective stroke based on IVC you can get a good enough approximation of what "dynamic" compression ratio you have at low speeds. Assume a target of 8:1 "DCR" and work backwards based on the cam timing to see what "static" compression ratio is required. You are correct that the simple DCR calculation would show that the DCR is going down, but in reality the true DCR could actually be way higher. But, at high speeds we don't have to worry as much with staying at 8:1. If it is on the edge timing and fuel can be tweaked. At 3000 rpm and lower is where I would be most concerned with having the detonation. And an averaged DCR below 3000 rpm gives fairly close results to the simplified DCR calculation based on effective stroke length. I use software to build the engine first and look at all the cylinder pressures, timing, cam timing and SCR to find the right balance regarding, power requirements, fuel availability, and overall manners on how it drives. With our VVT it is easy to find that balance. I am currently working with a friend and we've built a 347 for his 93 cobra. It made 627 HP on the engine dyno on 91 octane with a custom solid roller grind we came up with so that it idles like a stock 5.0. This is with 10:1 static compression.
 

TX5OH

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I dont think I would hesitate going to 12.5 on a Gen 2, but getting to 13 is something to think about.

Fortunately, pistons arent too crazy expensive to try out multiple sets, but it would definitely help knowing if its a possibility going in..

Some really good responses so far...
Got a friend with a C6 vette that is running 13:1 on pump 93.
 
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D K

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Yes, but thats pretty difficult compare.

Each engine reacts very differently.
4.6, you would be lucky to get over 9:1 lol

Got a friend with a C6 vette that is running 13:1 on pump 93.
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