Lund tune experience: at best a C+

MRGTX

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I’m absolutely not interested in bashing a well respected tuner. I have faith that they’re as good as anyone else out there. They have proven results for many happy customers. Absolutely look them up if you’re considering a tune.

So far, I’m just not thrilled and I want to share my experiences. Any feedback is welcome. If you think I expected too much or didn’t do enough homework, I can handle the criticism.

So I detailed my regrettable adventure of swapping in the Ford Performance 4.09:1 ring and pinion on mg over in the drivetrain forum. It has been a series of headaches from well meaning people with bad info (including me). I take the blame for assuming that the 2018 cars were basically the same as my 2020.

I didn’t want to do the job myself. I got a decent quote and was told by my Ford service dept that the job and correcting for the ratio would be no problem...they were wrong, of course and handed the car back to me with a shrug and a bunch of DTCs.

As it turns out, Ford has not (as of the time of this writing) released their official ProCal kit to accommodate these gears in 2019 and 2020 cars even though they will sell them to people who own these model years. Lovely. This kit is the ONLY official way to make the gears work.

So as you would guess, without the calibration, the car drove like hot garbage. The weird rev hang behavior drove me nuts, no rev match feature, no cruise control, etc. The gears we’re working great though and it despite the tune problems, it pulled nicely.

So I couldn’t wait for Ford’s official fix so I reached out to Lund Racing who said they could make the ratio correction so the car would drive properly and specifically that they could restore the rev match feature. Great!

I ordered up the NGauge and the tune. The tune showed up in my email super fast, the NGauge took a little longer. It arrived on a Friday afternoon (a week and a few days ago). I promptly installed the device and uploaded the tune and discovered that the tune didn’t work at all. No difference whatsoever. So...I had another weekend of driving a screwed up car.

The car threw codes which I sent to Lund. The reply was that the tune was fine but the codes indicated a neutral position sensor switch. Lund rep was sure that something came unplugged or the harness was bad...a very unlikely scenario for a brand new car but just the same, I spent hours trying to find a diagram for the location of the switch to see if just maybe they were right..but it just didn’t sound right. The trans was never touched. The car worked fine before the tune. Well it turns out that the same code can indicate a generic drivetrain malfunction (like having the wrong gears). Thank you to BAMA Performance for helping me figure that out. No shit.

I wrote back, asking Lund to double check the tune and reminding them that 2020s were unique, etc and sure enough they came back with a tune revision that worked. Mistakes happen. No problem. Let’s get on with life and enjoy the car.

For the past week, it has been a mixed bag. No DTCs, the gears still feel great but the 91-93 octane performance tune made no noticeable difference to the sensation of power.... I have even had a few moments when rolling onto the throttle, the car fell kinda flat. So...yep. those are totally subjective observations. Maybe my butt dyno is just out of calibration. So I collected a data log to see if they could just make sure all was ok.

The bigger problem is the rev match feature. Yes, it mostly works now...but it consistently overshoots by a couple hundred RPM which can be annoying when down shifting among the higher gears. Instead of the seamless “heel-toe gear changes The car lurches or requires slipping the clutch just a little....disappointing and annoying, especially since I was told specifically that this would be restored.

I went back to them today to send the logs to make sure all was good and to see if they could tweak the tune to fix the over-rev.

The answer was no.

The tune looked fine but the car isn’t making great power because I’m on pump gas. Ok...

The rev match feature can’t be addressed at all. They don’t know how to fix it. I was told that they tried messing with it in Alex’s car (is that the “Yolo Douche Bag” guy from YouTube?) and never got it working like stock again.

Soooo I paid $630 to correct one parameter in the PCM.
Was I expecting too much?

Everyone has been prompt and professional. They seem like good folks. It’s just that the product fell short of what I expected and I don’t get the sense that they care all that much.





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wtb6mtv8rwd

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This is probably not gonna be a popular opinion but personally i think the whole canned tune thing is a borderline scam. Gave it a shot on two other platforms in the past. One couldn't get any gains whatsoever on the dyno. The other made my car ran worse and couldn't fix it (stock tune was perfect). Both were big name tuners on their respective platforms.

Modern ECUs are smart and the guys who design them smarter than your tuner. And on a NA car running pump gas there just isn't much to gain.

I think the whole tune thing is just too easy a money maker and for a lot of these guys it's all about volume. Imagine duplicating the same file hundreds, thousands of times. Takes no work but racks up $$$.

Once you've made your purchase most of these guys rarely have any desire to do actual work or troubleshooting when the one-size-fits all tune happens to not work so well on your car. Sure they can be friendly and courteous, some even give you the illusion of being "custom" with some "revisions" but that's mostly fluff.

Some guys will rave about them but I think they're just justifying their purchase and possibly fooled by aggressive throttle mapping and raised redlines.

That's just my opinion and experience. And for the record I have no experience whatsoever with Lund.

But forget that and let's pretend those tunes do work: When you have 460 something horsepower and add 10 or 15, are you really going to feel a mere ~3% increase?
On the dyno that's probably with the margin of error between runs.
 
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WildHorse

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Soooo I paid $630 to correct one parameter in the PCM.
Was I expecting too much?
Did you flash it back to a stock tune to see if the same codes pop up ? Is all the vehicle sensors at the back plugged in ? No wires pinched/frayed/broke ? Before going after any tuner, you can help the process. Anything can pop up that generic codes.

Soooo I paid $630 to correct one parameter in the PCM.
You paid for the lund gage & tune.
 
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Skyrm_da

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This is probably not gonna be a popular opinion but personally i think the whole canned tune thing is a borderline scam. Gave it a shot on two other platforms in the past. One couldn't get any gains whatsoever on the dyno. The other made my car ran worse and couldn't fix it (stock tune was perfect). Both were big name tuners on their respective platforms.

Modern ECUs are smart and the guys who design them smarter than your tuner. And on a NA car running pump gas there just isn't much to gain.

I think the whole tune thing is just too easy a money maker and for a lot of these guys it's all about volume. Imagine duplicating the same file hundreds, thousands of times. Takes no work but racks up $$$.

Once you've made your purchase most of these guys rarely have any desire to do actual work or troubleshooting when the one-size-fits all tune happens to not work so well on your car. Sure they can be friendly and courteous, some even give you the illusion of being "custom" with some "revisions" but that's mostly fluff.

Some guys will rave about them but I think they're just justifying their purchase and possibly fooled by aggressive throttle mapping and raised redlines.

That's just my opinion and experience. And for the record I have no experience whatsoever with Lund.

But forget that and let's pretend those tunes do work: When you have 460 something horsepower and add 10 or 15, are you really going to feel a mere ~3% increase?
On the dyno that's probably with the margin of error between runs.
I got a stock 2019 A10 canned tuned Lund E85 car and it runs 7.2x in the 1/8th and only trip to 1/4mi track it ran 11.4 so I’m gonna say they know their stuff. Car has zero engine mods and still has factory airbox. I’ve been very pleased with Lund, their customer service, and product over all.
 
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MRGTX

MRGTX

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Did you flash it back to a stock tune to see if the same codes pop up ? Is all the vehicle sensors at the back plugged in ? No wires pinched/frayed/broke ? Before going after any tuner, you can help the process. Anything can pop up that generic codes.
Who is going after a tuner?

I know for a fact that these guys are good at what they do. As their bottom level customer, I just had a very lackluster experience.

So I know people rag on Bama Tuning...but I have always been able to talk to them on the phone, they listen to what I'm saying, they have never sent me on a wild goose chase. LONG ago, I bought a "tunes for life" deal with them for my S197. My 2011 GT 6spd ran a Bama "V2" 91 octane tune for years with no problems. Having recently swapped back to stock to take it through emissions testing, it was so obvious how the Bama tune brightened up the performance. The stock tune felt a bit lazy and soft by comparison. I was expecting something similar with the Lund tune on my 2020 which just doesn't seem to be the case.

Granted, this could be a symptom of a better stock tune in a 2020 car and therefore less room for improvement.

Anyway, when I wasn't able to find this disconnected harness and it looked like Lund was hanging me out to dry, I thought I would give Bama a try as a last ditch effort...being totally honest that my new car had "somebody else's" tune. The rep I spoke with was awesome, spent 15-20 minutes with me and pointed out that this DTC has other (more probable) meanings which ultimately led to me asking Lund to check the tune again....

Anyway, all of this is a problem because Lund (and other tuners too) lock up the tune so you can't tweak it yourself. We have to depend on them. This is both why canned tunes are appealing to those of us who aren't experts...and immensely frustrating to those of us who have some sense of how the system works.

Did you flash it back to a stock tune to see if the same codes pop up ? Is all the vehicle sensors at the back plugged in ? No wires pinched/frayed/broke ? Before going after any tuner, you can help the process. Anything can pop up that generic codes.


You paid for the lund gage & tune.
Yes. I flashed back and forth all weekend, messed with FORScan, did everything I could to fix the problem but it popped back up each time.

I couldn't find any damaged or disconnected harnesses. The car was on ramps so I couldn't see everything but I'm also familiar with Ockham's Razor so I didn't get as far as dropping the transmission as I was pretty sure that this was the wrong hypothesis.

Ultimately, the 2019-2020 cars' 3.77 gear ratio limit in the PCM (which nobody knows how to fix through FORScan) appears to be the culprit. :Lund didn't say how they fixed the tune but I'm guessing this is what they had failed to address earlier.

You're right about the gauge. It does have some value and it can do some cool stuff...but the primary use is to enable uploading of the custom tuning and to be able to data log...and the value of those two aspects seems much lower now.
 
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MRGTX

MRGTX

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I got a stock 2019 A10 canned tuned Lund E85 car and it runs 7.2x in the 1/8th and only trip to 1/4mi track it ran 11.4 so I’m gonna say they know their stuff. Car has zero engine mods and still has factory airbox. I’ve been very pleased with Lund, their customer service, and product over all.
That's excellent!
Your experience is right in line with what I have always heard.

Maybe those of us with manual trans cars and who live in areas with no access to E85 should not bother at all. That's indirectly what I was told (at least in regards to the pump gas) in my last communication with them.
 
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MRGTX

MRGTX

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This is probably not gonna be a popular opinion but personally i think the whole canned tune thing is a borderline scam. Gave it a shot on two other platforms in the past. One couldn't get any gains whatsoever on the dyno. The other made my car ran worse and couldn't fix it (stock tune was perfect). Both were big name tuners on their respective platforms.

Modern ECUs are smart and the guys who design them smarter than your tuner. And on a NA car running pump gas there just isn't much to gain.

I think the whole tune thing is just too easy a money maker and for a lot of these guys it's all about volume. Imagine duplicating the same file hundreds, thousands of times. Takes no work but racks up $$$.

Once you've made your purchase most of these guys rarely have any desire to do actual work or troubleshooting when the one-size-fits all tune happens to not work so well on your car. Sure they can be friendly and courteous, some even give you the illusion of being "custom" with some "revisions" but that's mostly fluff.

Some guys will rave about them but I think they're just justifying their purchase and possibly fooled by aggressive throttle mapping and raised redlines.

That's just my opinion and experience. And for the record I have no experience whatsoever with Lund.

But forget that and let's pretend those tunes do work: When you have 460 something horsepower and add 10 or 15, are you really going to feel a mere ~3% increase?
On the dyno that's probably with the margin of error between runs.
All excellent points. I'm not quite as cynical about online/canned tunes and tuners but I hear you.

As for them having no desire to do actual work, that's essentially why I started the thread.

I have no intention of bashing them but if people speak up honestly about their experiences, it might eventually get back to them that customers don't feel like they got a great value for their investment and they might try to do better.

I'm all for second chances and redemption...and I'm secure enough to admit when I'm in the wrong. If anything changes with this situation, I will happily share.

For now, it looks like I am on my own in trying to fix this rev match problem. My plan is to do some back of the napkin calculations today and try to come up with a tire diameter that would correct the over-rev. Then I'll see if they might be willing to revise the tune to represent a different value here. IIRC, this parameter is adjustable to the tenth of a millimeter so I assume they can make fine adjustments here.
 

kevinvan6000

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if you havent done so already maybe try the HPtuners forum to see if anyone there has seen or run into this issue there.
 

Skyrm_da

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That's excellent!
Your experience is right in line with what I have always heard.

Maybe those of us with manual trans cars and who live in areas with no access to E85 should not bother at all. That's indirectly what I was told (at least in regards to the pump gas) in my last communication with them.
I know it would just be tossing away money, but have you considered going back to a stock gear ratio?
 
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MRGTX

MRGTX

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if you havent done so already maybe try the HPtuners forum to see if anyone there has seen or run into this issue there.
Thanks. I haven't gone there yet but I will check it out.

I know it would just be tossing away money, but have you considered going back to a stock gear ratio?
Yeah. I have considered it and come to the conclusion that I'm in way too deep. :D
Once the dust settles and Ford releases their tune, I believe it will be worth it. IMO, these gears are much better suited to a heavy car that makes all of its power up high in the rev band. The Coyote needs to howl to show its full potential and the 3.55s kept it down to a dull growl. Even the 3.73 cars feel under-geared by a big margin...at least with the D4 ratios.

The 4.09 ratio doesn't feel radical at all. It feels correct for this drivetrain. I don't drive many freeway miles and as a result, my fuel economy appears to be essentially unchanged so far, likely because 5th and 6th are much more useful around town. The new ratio just gives you more flexibility.

If you plan to go FI, don't bother as most people seem to agree that the taller final drive is much more useful in those applications.
 

catchthecarp

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I went back to them today to send the logs to make sure all was good and to see if they could tweak the tune to fix the over-rev.

The answer was no.
Since they can't deliver what they promised you're entitled to full refund IMO. Did you ask for one?
 
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MRGTX

MRGTX

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Since they can't deliver what they promised you're entitled to full refund IMO. Did you ask for one?
Well, I'd rather work with them to make it right. I believe they have earned that chance and I haven't given up on them.
 

K4fxd

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I had a Lund tune on my F150. When I changed the cams to mustang I called and asked him to tune it. He told me I was an idiot for putting mustang cams in a truck and he would not tune for them.
 

K4fxd

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This is a guess, but in your next communication with Lund ask if they turned off the learn by BCM switch.

If that is turned off it might be the cause of the RPM match being off.
With it on the PCM gets the true ratio of gear and tire.
 

Bluemustang

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To be fair, you are not really going to make anything on a tune only, on pump gas with a GEN3 engine. Ford tuned it pretty close to the edge. And remember you can only advance the timing such that the fuel can support it. I wouldn't blame Lund for that. Your other concerns seem like they might be valid and worth prodding Lund to help make it better. If you want to see a real increase - E85. Tune.
 

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