Limp Mode on the Track

[SpursFan]

My s2k has seen every limit it has and well beyond. After 4 days in the stang it was very clear they are worlds apart. Could a s2k be faster on a given track, of course with the right setup and driver. After a 45 min run pushing it to 7/10s I saw no heat issues, I will have to get it out to SP to warm things up.

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[1320']

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ford eats a class action on this if they don't address it. To many pissed off people who have money and lawyers.

Not a chance

 

[Bossing]

Nice. You going?

Yes. And I'll actually be at Sebring next weekend... will run on 2/28.

 

[Shooter]

I just wanted to post a quick thanks to GT350 Tech owners out there. You saved me from a costly mistake. I was fixing to head into Houston this weekend to possibly buy a new 2016 GT350 with..yep, the tech package. I'm a big time track guy and would have been PISSED if my new $60K Shelby went into limp mode after 10-15 mins on the track. So, now I'm going to look for a: A track pack car, b; order a 17', or c: try to order a 350R.

I presently track a 2008 ACR-X clone (means it started life as a regular ACR), and can tell you that for sure, I would have pushed the Shelby hard enough to trigger the limp mode. Would not have been a happy camper. So, thanks

shooter

 

[Caballus]

Not a chance

Because Ford will demonstrate the level of integrity expected of a corporation of their stature?

 

[stanglife]

Because Ford will demonstrate the level of integrity expected of a corporation of their stature?

Integrity that would result in them giving something for free now that they told everyone wasn't included from the get go? Not happening. The best that will happen is that they will offer add in packages through FP, that can be purchased and installed at the owners expense.

Everyone claims deception. I don't see it. Common sense dictates that if they needed coolers for track models to run all day, tech models likely would NOT run all day. I think this is more to do with people feeling like they missed out on the "base" coolers now offered on the 17...I'd feel a little cheated there as well except for the fact that it (the 17) will likely cost more due to this.

Maybe the limited is extra aggressive and changing the setting by 5-10 degrees will make a reasonable difference in track time before tripping the alarms?

 

[Hack]

Do what Jay Leno did - swap out the Recaros for other seats, presumably the Tech seats.

I already own a tech pack car. I love it for commuting and just driving around on the street, but I'm wondering whether I should cancel my track date in June. There's still time, but I have 2 days off work, hotel reservations,etc. I'm not lucky enough to have a track in my backyard. It's 150 miles away. Luckily I haven't paid for the track day insurance yet. To me $700-800 is a significant amount of money, and I'm not sure I want to spend it if the car is going to end up in limp mode.

Everyone claims deception. I don't see it. Common sense dictates that if they needed coolers for track models to run all day, tech models likely would NOT run all day. I think this is more to do with people feeling like they missed out on the "base" coolers now offered on the 17...I'd feel a little cheated there as well except for the fact that it (the 17) will likely cost more due to this.

Why continue to miss-characterize what people are saying? I just want to be able to get through a 20 minute HPDE session, not run all day. Show me where even ONE tech pack owner says they want to run all day on the track. :frusty:

 

[Crashspeeder]

Hack, it sounds like you could be a guinea pig for the rest of us, unless somebody with a tech car is hitting the track sooner. My previous post has a couple of things that have been discussed as possible mitigation for the excess heat in the transmission. Those simple modifications could theoretically delay heat soak until the 30-35 minute mark. Maybe others can find more options.

I will be installing the Muffler Armor to the cats when I pick up my car in two weeks, though I don't intend to be tracking the car until August or so.

 

[Hack]

Hack, it sounds like you could be a guinea pig for the rest of us, unless somebody with a tech car is hitting the track sooner. My previous post has a couple of things that have been discussed as possible mitigation for the excess heat in the transmission. Those simple modifications could theoretically delay heat soak until the 30-35 minute mark. Maybe others can find more options.

I will be installing the Muffler Armor to the cats when I pick up my car in two weeks, though I don't intend to be tracking the car until August or so.

I'm sure there are people in the south or west who will be at a track before me.

I like your ideas for heat shielding. Frankly, I think they are superior to a cooler, as they won't over cool the transmission when driving on the street. However, I really don't want to make changes to my brand new $60k car while it's in warranty if there's a chance that those changes will cause a warranty claim to be denied. There's a lot of salt and water in MN, and wrapping the pipes could accelerate corrosion or a heat shield could cause an overheating catalytic converter in bumper to bumper traffic. I'm really hoping to get recommendations from Ford.

I'm really grateful to those who have taken their tech pack cars to a track and now have gone to Ford requesting help. I don't think I can do that yet. I suppose if nothing has changed by June I will probably end up at my dealer too.

 

[stanglife]

Why continue to miss-characterize what people are saying? I just want to be able to get through a 20 minute HPDE session, not run all day. Show me where even ONE tech pack owner says they want to run all day on the track. :frusty:

Ok, I'm the one that said all day. The fact is, the tech cars need the track parts to run on the track. I'm just saying that, IMO, it shouldn't seem like the huge surprise that everyone is making it out to be. The root of the problem is that Ford should have offered the packages like they will be for the '17, from the beginning.

The combo for 17 will almost certainly be more expensive (I'm guessing but I think most people would guess the same). Will 16 tech pack owners be happy if Ford offers a cooling upgrade that costs about what the difference would be if you picked those options on a '17?

I think if something is going to get done, you guys should come up with a reasonable request (not, "give to me for free, damn you FORD!"). and present that request. I think what I suggested above is pretty reasonable. Pick a plan and start a polite petition.

 

[mattlqx]

So in theory, if the cats are what's making the transmission so hot, I have cat delete pipes sitting in my garage and could put them on and see if it makes a material difference on runtime. Would I require a tune to put them on (another thing I have but haven't installed due to reliability concerns) or would I just have to deal with a CEL? I want to avoid making any permanently warranty altering modifications at this time.

But I could make another attempt on 3/4-5, NASA is at a track 7 miles away from me then.

 

[Crashspeeder]

I don't know if removing the cats requires any software modifications, but I do know that your car would (obviously) be much louder. Make sure you check with the track before going to ensure you don't exceed any decibel limits.

 

[NipSC4328]

I'm sure there are people in the south or west who will be at a track before me.

I like your ideas for heat shielding. Frankly, I think they are superior to a cooler, as they won't over cool the transmission when driving on the street. However, I really don't want to make changes to my brand new $60k car while it's in warranty if there's a chance that those changes will cause a warranty claim to be denied. There's a lot of salt and water in MN, and wrapping the pipes could accelerate corrosion or a heat shield could cause an overheating catalytic converter in bumper to bumper traffic. I'm really hoping to get recommendations from Ford.

I'm really grateful to those who have taken their tech pack cars to a track and now have gone to Ford requesting help. I don't think I can do that yet. I suppose if nothing has changed by June I will probably end up at my dealer too.

I would think a simple thermostat switch or valve on the pump would keep from overcooling the tranny. Does the factory pump run constantly? Is it electronic or mechanical? I hadn't thought about overheating the cats but that might be a valid concern.

 

[Crashspeeder]

You wouldn't be wrapping the whole cat. That would be catastrophic (no pun intended). The suggestion from Heat Shield Products was to put it on half of each cat to reflect away from the transmission. In fact, their product page says specifically not to wrap a catalytic converter fully.

 

[Caballus]

Ok, I'm the one that said all day. The fact is, the tech cars need the track parts to run on the track. I'm just saying that, IMO, it shouldn't seem like the huge surprise that everyone is making it out to be. The root of the problem is that Ford should have offered the packages like they will be for the '17, from the beginning.

The combo for 17 will almost certainly be more expensive (I'm guessing but I think most people would guess the same). Will 16 tech pack owners be happy if Ford offers a cooling upgrade that costs about what the difference would be if you picked those options on a '17?

I think if something is going to get done, you guys should come up with a reasonable request (not, "give to me for free, damn you FORD!"). and present that request. I think what I suggested above is pretty reasonable. Pick a plan and start a polite petition.

I like your points, though many of them don't seem well founded.


You say, for instance, that "Everyone claims deception." But then you say, "Common sense dictates that if they needed coolers for track models to run all day, tech models likely would NOT run all day." (knowing from above you meant something less than all day--but more than 10-20 minutes now stated by FP)

Regarding common sense, if everyone (or even a lot of people) feel deceived, then the "common sense" says they were deceived. That's the definition of common sense, that which is expected by the majority of the people, at least the majority who are affected by this situation.

The divide seems to be between many of those who bought either the Base model or Tech Pkg (the majority) and many of those who bought the Track Pkg or the R (there is also a very vocal group who bought nothing). Perhaps the track and R buyers are blessed to have something greater than common sense--or are simply hard core track enthusiasts who never considered a base or tech anyway. Don't know. What is for sure though is that they are the minority--the least common among us. Also clear is that the track and R buyers have nothing at stake. Zero.

Speaking only for myself, the only person I am qualified to speak for, I do not expect anything extra for free. Nor, however, do I expect to pay extra for what Ford led me (and it seems many others) to believe. I should not be expected to dig down to page 25 of an owners manual to find out a car won't do what it was marketed to do. Add to that the date that the owners manual was published and my position is reinforced.

I don't expect the car to compete on the track with a Track Pkg or R. The ability to complete a full day on the track should be my burden, hopefully with Ford's R&D support since they recommended an aftermarket add-on. I simply expect Ford to provide a vehicle that can handle more than 10-20 minutes on the track and sustained high speeds, just as ANY base competitor vehicle can do. In fact, base versions of cars well below this class can out perform the base and tech GT350 on the track--time wise. So, Ford fell short, and needs to fix it--that's where integrity comes in. There are lies of commission and lies of omission. This car's shortcomings were omitted from any and all marketing. The car, as a whole, was advertised as very track capable, to include a suspension upgrade being added to the tech pack.

Does that make the whole car a bad deal? No. It simply makes it something less than what it was marketed to be.

Finally, while I understand your interpretation of the situation, I don't understand the basis of it. As an R buyer, what is your stake in this? Are you affiliated with Ford or do you simply believe that I (and others in the same position) was stupid for believing what Ford advertised (outside of a later printed owners manual) and should now pay the price for my stupidity and inability to apply "common sense"? If the latter, I obviously disagree, but am interested in understanding your dog in this fight. Thanks.

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