Limp Mode on the Track

[zombiekiller]

Good points and good question, Rogue. WRT the Autobahn, you are probably right, but my concern is based on two things. First, the manual, when referring to the Base and Tech, states, "For sustained high speeds or track day use..." The "sustained high speeds" portion of that statement naturally brings to mind the Autobahn. Second, I contacted FP and asked about this specific thing, and they said "We can't be sure. The transmission might overheat under those conditions." Certainly, I will put it to the test to see before casting final judgement, but I can't help but feel a bit misled when I have to worry about a car of this calibre possibly overheating on the Autobahn. It's crazy to me. Again, it probably won't, but there should be no probably with the GT350, given how it has been presented.

Regarding the track, I do not plan to do full day sessions or anything that I would expect would warrant a cooler. So, I asked about that too, and specifically referenced the Nürburgring. The answer was the same. We can't be sure that it can make a full lap without powering down after "10-20 minutes". That's FP talking. Like the Autobahn, it probably can, and I will test it plenty to see if it can, but probably is not what I expected from this car.

I started a thread about the GT350 v. the Hellcat, where a lot of us trash talked and bantered back and forth. Good fun. Although I stuck up for the HC, I had no doubt at the time that the GT350 was a better track car than the Hellcat. I now question that assumption when it comes base/tech for more than 10-20 minutes. Same goes for the folks I work with who have a base GT500, M3, and 911. All can handle the track with base models. For that matter, so could my old stock 325i. Again, I'm not talking all day sessions, but I am talking more than 20 minutes.

As for your question on how many tech packs hit the track there, I'm not even almost in a position to answer. What I do know is that because the deliveries didn't really begin in earnest until this winter, many are either stored or being driven conservatively. Yet, despite that, three have already run into heating problems. Nonetheless, I take your point that three is a small sampling. However, consider the point that many have made here: only a small percentage of base and tech owners will ever track their cars (speculation). If that is true, then three may be a worthwhile sample, especially when you add to it that it's still winter. As for most not intending to track, it doesn't matter. Any product should be capable of doing what it was marketed to do, whether it's a rifle that shoots to a thousand meters or a car that is supposed to be as good on the track as it is on the road...

My position is that Ford built an expectation that they failed to meet. Like many others, I don't expect free coolers. Where I respectfully differ, however, is that I don't think I should have to spend one more red cent to make the car meet the expectations that Ford built through it's marketing campaign. What does that mean? I believe that there is likely a solution short of coolers that will ensure the car can perform on the track for more than "10-20 minutes (FP's stated time limit, not mine)" and sustain high speeds without the transmission overheating. I also believe that Ford is responsible for making whatever modifications are required to achieve that capability, at no cost to the consumer. Anything beyond that (such as coolers) should cost the consumer, but should also be made available by Ford since they recommended them. Will it happen? I'll reserve judgement for now. Finally, I believe in compromise, but I don't believe compromise means paying more for what you were led to believe you were buying in the first place.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I did my homework prior to purchasing the car, which was before their statements were buried in an owners manual. I've gone back and researched again, and my position remains the same. Ford's marketing approach and the information made available was misleading. It is what it is, and whatever happens happens. But if they don't rectify it in some way, I will lose total respect for them and see it as just another rip off. Sad, given the symbolism of this car--Mustang. However, it's about principle and integrity--two words that still mean something to me as an American.

Plenty disagree, and that's their business, especially on a forum. However, most who cast stones have no dog in the fight.

my word... we don't actually disagree! great post.. i am with you, especially after today.. ( see post above) . make that 4 cars!

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[EF300]

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ford eats a class action on this if they don't address it. To many pissed off people who have money and lawyers.

 

[SpursFan]

so i hit the track this morning. about 78 degrees, 50% humidity.

I had the same issues as others. after 17 minutes the first time, 18 minutes the second time. about an hour in between runs.

I was NOT pushing the car hard at all. Fast pace for nasa racers is anywhere from 1:44 to about 2:04 depending on conditions.

The advanced group was running about a 2:02. (GT3 cup, gt3 rses, some pasta) super fast guys can push into the low to mid 1:50s at this track in miatas and s2000s.

The viper ACR guys get into the mid 1:40s

My average time was right at 2:15.

My car has 307 miles on it as i type this. The car didn't "die", but it was significantly down on power. i'd call it "parade lap power" .

I bagged it after two tries, wiped the car down and walked around cars and coffee.

So, the car is going to be sitting at my dealer for the next week for them to correct the rear bumper alignment anyway. I'll have them pull logs and send them to ford.

I can't say that I'm surprised, or that it is the worst thing in the world, but i'm pretty disappointed.

It gets a LOT hotter down here in the summer time with about 100% humidity. I'd venture a guess that I'll barely make it 10-11 minutes if I'm really pushing , trying to get as close as i can to 2:00. I think if the car doesnt overheat and pull power, I can absolutely drive it into the 1:50s.

Edit: For reference, I have turned a 2:01 in my garage neighbors full track prepped gt3 before, the second time that i drove it. I am not newbish. the track rat that i just sold was a gutted e46 m3.

I do not expect my tech car to run like the m3 or the gt3, but i do expect it to be able to turn more that 8 laps without pulling power at a semi-leisurely pace.

blah.

At least it sounded awesome!

Edit: I did not take trans temp, of dif temp. I do not have an nguage, i did not bring a thermometer with me. engine oil temp was completely fine, as was coolant temp. the hood gets amazingly hot though!

You ran a tracked prepped GT3 at 2:01 and super fast drivers run low 1:50s in miatas and S2000s at this track?

 

[zombiekiller]

You ran a tracked prepped GT3 at 2:01 and super fast drivers run low 1:50s in miatas and S2000s at this track?

yes. the second time i ever drove the car. How hard would you push someone else's GT3, knowing that you had to fix it if you crumpled it? It's my neighbor's, and I'd like to not make a super rich dude pissed at me.

I've ran a 1:52 in my M3 before.

The indy circuit at the track is far less forgiving than the track was prior to indy mods. There are like walls now, where their used to be run offs.

Furthermore. the nasa record for the class that includes your miatas and such on this track is 1:53.

I am not a "record breaking " driver, just someone who enjoys getting on the track and pushing it a little.

 

[SpursFan]

An s2k running 25 seconds faster than a gt350 is either a full on race prepped car with the stig at the wheel or the gt350 was no were near the limits.

 

[Caballus]

my word... we don't actually disagree! great post.. i am with you, especially after today.. ( see post above) . make that 4 cars!

Sorry to hear (read) that happened during an otherwise great track session. On the other hand, glad it's at the dealer where good data can be collected and sent to FP. Thanks for sharing.

 

[zombiekiller]

First and foremost, its stupid that i even feel compelled to defend myself against awesome internet people, but....


All of the miatas and s2000s that are out there are full race prepped, and have drivers that are generally on the track every track day, open track day and every nasa, porsche club and hpde event.

I honestly am not that serious about driving on that track. for me, having a toy or two in a garage at the track, paying 12 grand a year for membership and enjoying racing the clock is what i am into.

conversely before many of these guys get to cars or consumables, they are spending 150K on a lifetime track membership and another 400K on a trackside garage/man cave.

I dont take it that serious and i'm not balling like that. So flame away that i'm not out there pulling 1:30 laps in a prius, because i am the awesomest driver ever.

In that light, I would expect that a venerable gt350 would be able to outperform my driving acumen on the track, before winding itself down into "parade lap mode". Even mediocre driver me, not pushing the car to MY personal limits, put it into a thermal protect itself mode, by lap 8. It is a 2.75 track in the configuration that i ran. that sucks.

I went with the tech package because i figured 1-2 times per year on the track for this thing would be fun. I have another car, that if I want to drive on the track and push myself, i'll drive. In all honesty, i was also interested in what i could do with this car on the track, because its got at least 200HP more than anything else that I've owned and been on the track with.

I've driven other track members uber awesome, super fast cars on the track, but I certainly dont have a couple hundred grand laying around to replace their cars if i wrecked them, so i go at a decent pace when i am lucky enough to drive them.

Throw whatever stone y'all want. I'm just sharing my experience.

I'll be having a conversation with Ford customer service on Monday about my experience. So i guess i'll see what happens.

 

[snaproll]

Do the 3/26 Sebring hpde by PDG.

Nice. You going?

 

[snaproll]

You ran a tracked prepped GT3 at 2:01 and super fast drivers run low 1:50s in miatas and S2000s at this track?

I must agree that is pretty interesting. A Mustang GT on space saver spares will leave a spec Miata standing still. Nothing wrong with going slow. There are groups for every level.

 

[Caballus]

I must agree that is pretty interesting. A Mustang GT on space saver spares will leave a spec Miata standing still. Nothing wrong with going slow. There are groups for every level.

Are you intentionally trying to distract from the topic of this thread?

 

[zombiekiller]

I must agree that is pretty interesting. A Mustang GT on space saver spares will leave a spec Miata standing still. Nothing wrong with going slow. There are groups for every level.

I have yet to see a mustang GT blow past 1:53 ( fulled prepped s2000 that set that classes' record)... not even the FR500S cars that Nola owns. Especially not when guys in GT3s on street tires usually do 2:00 - 2:10 after they've been out a couple times.

Edit: correction, looks like a couple of the TT3 guys ran 1:50 in a fully prepped 2011.

i would strongly suggest y'all take a look at the times before passing judgement.

http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=103983&start=40


If you'd like to come run, c'mon down, we're happy have you. Let's see what you can turn. There is an HPDE session scheduled for march that has room left. then one in July, then october.

 

[Gatorac]

I must agree that is pretty interesting. A Mustang GT on space saver spares will leave a spec Miata standing still.

I'll be your Huckleberry.

 

[snaproll]

Are you intentionally trying to distract from the topic of this thread?

This thread was derailed awhile ago. That said, I volunteered to help fix your tech pack car at either one of two track events. Someone suggested a 3rd which I may attend as well. What have you done to solve the problem sir?

 

[Hughespj47]

Well as long as you're humble I won't take offense, right? :cheers:

I disagree. Obviously.

If Ford would have made it clear that the most track capable Mustang ever needed to have the track pack option in order to run a 20 minute HPDE at 65 F with a novice driver, I would have bought a track pack with the assumption I needed to swap out seats to something that would work for me.

I actually would have been fine with that, because the Sync, nav, heated and cooled seats, blah blah weren't important to me. Being able to comfortably fit in the car was and is pretty critical though.
I mean - I know I'm bigger than most, but I hardly think I'm fat. Here's a clip of a recent photo.


Yeah ok maybe this is going kind of far, but I'm really tired of the little guys on here calling me fat. If they want to come call me fat to my face they are welcome to it. I don't fit into Recaros at all. I'm not sure I could even get behind the wheel of a GT350 with Recaros. I'm 6'4" 230. Hardly NBA or NFL material. I don't think I'm that far out of the mean, really. But Ford's Recaros are way too small for me.

So shoot me - I wanted to have a GT350 where I could fit comfortably in the seats and go to 2 or 3 HPDEs a year. Is that too much to ask?

Do what Jay Leno did - swap out the Recaros for other seats, presumably the Tech seats.

 

[snaproll]

I'll be your Huckleberry.

Lol . Seems like the mustangs have 20 seconds on Miatas at Sebring. The tighter the track the closer the gap of course.

So who is coming to NASA Road Atlanta or Sebring to run and fix their GT350?

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