Lets Talk Tires.

[OppoLock]

Okay so 10-15 years ago it seemed I knew everything about every tire on the market. My attention has been elsewhere for the last 6-7 years and now I'm trying to get a handle on what tires to get once I replace the stock P-Zeros. Not sure when that will happen but I like to plan these things well in advance. I've had my eye on the BFG rivals but am not sure I can handle the tread wear in daily life.

My driving style is 85% highway 15% aggressive twisties. I want something that will reward me properly 15% of the time but not punish me the other 85%.

Michelins are typically good but I am lost in the sheer number of different versions of the pilot. What is good for what?

It's also been my experience that certain brands get really rough riding as they wear. Example Nitto, Pirelli, Cooper from my experience all seem to be unbearable long before the tread is worn out.

Does Goodyear even make a decent tire anymore? Completely lost touch with their offerings. Bad experience with the Eagle GS-C 20 years ago haven't been back. Might this be a good time?

Had Toyo T1Rs on a BMW a few years back. Seemed like an okay tire but wore quickly (Staggered setup may of been part of this reason)

So yeah I guess I'm rambling now.

Who runs what and what works well?

Thanks for the input.

EVO magazine released a comprehensive test for the "max performance" summer tire category. There's a few big omissions from this list (Michelin PS3s but no PSSs; Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s instead of the Eagle F1 SuperCar G:2s - like in the Camaro 1LE... probably because they're an "extreme performance" chocie), but these are great notes.

If you're not looking for outright dry grip and things like comfort and wet grip, and steering feel/progression are important, there's a wide variety of choices. I just wish this test included PSSs.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-EVO-Max-Performance-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm

The Results

Below are the full results. Please note, we've not included aquaplaning scores, or applied any weighting, so make sure you pick up a copy of EVO issue 201 (November 2014) for the test in its full glory. Also we entered the EVO road route test as "comfort", but EVO took into account comfort, noise and steering feel.
1st: Continental Sport Contact 5
Total: 651 / Dry: 98.3 / Wet: 100 / Subjective: 189.4 / Rolling Resistance: 80.8 / Comfort: 95.3 / Cost: 87.2
Overall: With four wins, and only twice dropping out of the top three, it was a convincing win for Continental with the Sport Contact 5. Both subjectively and objectively, the Sport Contact 5 is a joy to drive

2nd: Pirelli P Zero
Total: 636.9 / Dry: 98.4 / Wet: 99.5 / Subjective: 185.7 / Rolling Resistance: 76 / Comfort: 90.7 / Cost: 86.6
Overall: Whilst being a relatively old pattern, the updated P Zero put in a very strong performance in the key wet and dry handling tests. Often the only tyre to get close to the Continental in outright grip

3rd: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2
Total: 640.9 / Dry: 98.1 / Wet: 99.3 / Subjective: 166.9 / Rolling Resistance: 90.8 / Comfort: 86 / Cost: 99.8
Overall: While the now aging Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 failed to win any categories, its consistent placing in all tests resulted in a top three finish. Easy to judge levels of grip, and progressive over the limit

4th: Yokohama Advan Neova AD08
Total: 603.6 / Dry: 100 / Wet: 93.5 / Subjective: 173.9 / Rolling Resistance: 67.4 / Comfort: 97.7 / Cost: 71.1
Overall: Yokohma took a gamble when it nominated the AD08 instead of the V105, but it paid off. Sensational in the dry, surprisingly "ok" in the wet, and performing well on the road too, the AD08 is a trackday tyre you can drive every day

5th: Michelin Pilot Sport 3 PS3
Total: 606.5 / Dry: 97.4 / Wet: 97.8 / Subjective: 152.4 / Rolling Resistance: 76.1 / Comfort: 100 / Cost: 82.8
Overall: Winning both aquaplaning tests and the road route, there was plenty to like about the Michelin and its weighty steering feel

6th: Vredestein Ultrac Vorti
Total: 608.4 / Dry: 97.6 / Wet: 96.7 / Subjective: 157.1 / Rolling Resistance: 69.5 / Comfort: 95.3 / Cost: 92.2
Overall: Similar performance to the seventh place Toyo, the Vredestein Ultrac Vorti was mostly a "mid table" tyre throughout the tests. It did well in wet handling, where it inspired confidence and finished third on the road route thanks to being comfortable and quiet

7th: Toyo Proxes T1 Sport
Total: 607 / Dry: 97.1 / Wet: 96.6 / Subjective: 160.2 / Rolling Resistance: 71.5 / Comfort: 83.7 / Cost: 97.9
Overall: Seventh seems like a fair place for the Toyo T1 Sport. It didn't really excel in any tests, performing slightly better in the wet handling tests than the dry, but offered better feel when the roads were dry. Reasonably priced

8th: Hankook Ventus S1 evo2
Total: 601.8 / Dry: 97.9 / Wet: 95.6 / Subjective: 152.9 / Rolling Resistance: 79.7 / Comfort: 81.4 / Cost: 94.3
Overall: The Hankook S1 Evo 2 had both good results, and bad. Strong in aquaplaning, and mid pack in dry handling, the tyre was let down by a last place finish in wet handling and a poor score on the road route section

9th: Dunlop SportMaxx RT
Total: 615.7 / Dry: 96.7 / Wet: 96.3 / Subjective: 129.7 / Rolling Resistance: 100 / Comfort: 93 / Cost: 100
Overall: Well priced, best rolling resistance, good feel with the limit eas to judge, let down by the limit not being higher

10th: Bridgestone Potenza S001
Total: 582.4 / Dry: 97.3 / Wet: 96.5 / Subjective: 127.6 / Rolling Resistance: 75.1 / Comfort: 93 / Cost: 92.9
Overall: The home advantage counting for nothing, the Bridgestone S001 finished last, struggling in both the subjective and measured tests

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[Dirtleg]

Thanks for all the replies. A good start to getting re-educated in the tire world.

And Norm thanks for the video. That's typically what the weather looks like any time I have a day off and plan to do something car/bike related.
I've run Michelins Pilot Sports on my bikes for years just haven't stuck them on a car yet. I guess it's probably time to try them out.

 

[Grimace427]

I've run Michelins Pilot Sports on my bikes for years just haven't stuck them on a car yet. I guess it's probably time to try them out.

Aren't the motorcycle tires called Power Sports?

http://moto.michelin.com/tyres/michelin-power-supersport

 

[USPSALIMITED]

EVO magazine released a comprehensive test for the "max performance" summer tire category.

I wonder what car and tire size they used for the tests & how much the results would change with a different car and different tire sizes and different track surface for the ultimate performance part of the test?

Not a shot at EVO, the same thought comes to mind with anyones comparison tests. Not sure if they really give accurate results for my Mustang & 19's.

 

[RollinInMy5.0]

I have Bridgestone RE-11's on my Supra and love them. Will probably put a set on my Mustang when the Pirelli's wear out.

 

[OppoLock]

I wonder what car and tire size they used for the tests & how much the results would change with a different car and different tire sizes and different track surface for the ultimate performance part of the test?

Not a shot at EVO, the same thought comes to mind with anyones comparison tests. Not sure if they really give accurate results for my Mustang & 19's.

The overall scale of the raw numbers would surely change, but this is a standardized test using 225/45 R17s across the board on a FWD hot hatch, so the relative stats should remain consistent, and this test places a heavier weight on subjective handling characteristics.

The sizing also has to do with the omission of outgoing favorites like the PSS, since those tires don't come in under 18".

 

[USPSALIMITED]

The overall scale of the raw numbers would surely change, but this is a standardized test using 225/45 R17s across the board on a FWD hot hatch, so the relative stats should remain consistent, and this test places a heavier weight on subjective handling characteristics.

Maybe.

I'm not sure that the best design for a fairly wide tire with fairly little sidewall would also be a particularly good design for a 225 17, you could argue that a particular design might be likely to be a best match with one particular sizing range or the other. I agree that it is not completely apples and oranges but it seems like it might be a wee bit that way.

Pure speculation on my part, I just don't know, but would need to see data to be convinced.

 

[Need4SpeedMotors]

I like the Michelin PSS, Conti Sport Contact and the Toyo R888 tires for my own personal use.

 

[Swoope]

The sizing also has to do with the omission of outgoing favorites like the PSS, since those tires don't come in under 18".

huh?

lots of 17" sizes in the pss. i am running 235 45 17s.

beers

 

[OppoLock]

huh?

lots of 17" sizes in the pss. i am running 235 45 17s.

beers

But in 225 series?

Edit: a quick search says yep. I just don't get why the tire test would say this:

Michelin finished fifth, with a good all round performance, but we tend to feel the French brand was disadvantaged by the small size chosen. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport would have been the logical competitor to the other tyres on test, but starting in 18 inches Michelin had to put forward the softer, more touring orientated Pilot Sport 3.

 

[Swoope]

But in 225 series?

Edit: a quick search says yep. I just don't get why the tire test would say this:

the test seemed to me like a mish mash of what ever max performance tire they wanted. makes no sense that the pss was not in the test..

and this is coming from a prior not believer in the pss. i have a set of mounted kook ventrus s1 sitting in the garage. would not even consider putting them on track..

beers

 

[DavisCustoms]

My driving style is 85% highway 15% aggressive twisties. I want something that will reward me properly 15% of the time but not punish me the other 85%.

I have been using 245/35ZR20 Toyo Proxes for the last 100,000 miles with no complaints, I usually get 25,000 miles to a set, comfortable enough for a 40 mile daily commute while still being sticky enough to have fun in the twisties, I do not do any on-track driving so I can't comment on that aspect.

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