Is it now between Bernie and Bloomberg?

[Docscurlock]

If the drugs were too expensive people wouldn't buy them. So obviously you are wrong about the drugs being too expensive. People must prefer the effect of taking the drug over hanging onto that cash. And there must not be cheaper alternatives that are acceptable to those people who are purchasing the drug.

I object to your characterization of profits being outrageous. Pretty offensive language.

Regulating prices is the way to shortages and lack of medication. If a company can't profit from their work, they will stop doing the work. Then we ALL lose. The medications won't be available at all.

Regulating tort reform and "damages" from lawsuits is the way to fix the problem. Getting sued for millions for a drug reaction just gets passed along to the consumer. Nothing is free.

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[watisthis]

I object to your characterization of profits being outrageous. Pretty offensive language.

Regulating prices is the way to shortages and lack of medication. If a company can't profit from their work, they will stop doing the work. Then we ALL lose. The medications won't be available at all.

Your lack of intelligence is the only offensive thing here.

 

[Bikeman315]

Your lack of intelligence is the only offensive thing here.

Can we please have one conversation where we are not shooting arrows at one another? This is a complicated issue, one with many sides.

I will add this. Many years ago my job took me to McAllen, TX. My company had a facility there that was supplied by others in Reynosa Mexico. I visited Reynosa on a regular basis. One thing that always interested me were the number of pharmacy’s just as you crossed the border. I asked about this and was told the people from all over Southern Texas would cross the border to get the exact same drugs for a fraction of the cost in TX. Same drugs from the original manufacturer for pennies on the dollar.

 

[watisthis]

Can we please have one conversation where we are not shooting arrows at one another? This is a complicated issue, one with many sides.

I will add this. Many years ago my job took me to McAllen, TX. My company had a facility there that was supplied by others in Reynosa Mexico. I visited Reynosa on a regular basis. One thing that always interested me were the number of pharmacy’s just as you crossed the border. I asked about this and was told the people from all over Southern Texas would cross the border to get the exact same drugs for a fraction of the cost in TX. Same drugs from the original manufacturer for pennies on the dollar.

The man is actually wrong 90% of the time and has the audacity to say calling companies greedy is offensive language.

Yes, putting price caps on medicine would reduce research and development. The US owns the majority of Pharma production because we don't price cap pharmaceuticals. Medicine is overly more profitable in the US than it is everywhere else. Other countries benefit from our R&D, but you assume regulating price ceilings would affect equilibrium price.

No one is saying you can't make a profit just not one hand over fist year after year at the cost of killing people with preventable illnesses/diseases.

Edit: To your point tho, yes, plenty of states and their insurance plan will just pay patients to take a flight somewhere and have them cross a border to get medication its actually hilarious.

 

[Docscurlock]

Can we please have one conversation where we are not shooting arrows at one another? This is a complicated issue, one with many sides.

that's the only way people who live on the government dole can make a point, his arguments are ridiculous

 

[Docscurlock]

No one is saying you can't make a profit just not one hand over fist year after year at the cost of killing people with preventable illnesses/diseases.

How much profit is ok then, Bernie?

 

[lacanteen]

There is a huge difference between what hospitals and pharmacies charge insurance companies, and what the insurance companies pay. I rarely get stuck with the difference unless it's a non-generic. Read the EOBs from your insurance provider. You can also get coupons for huge discounts here: https://www.goodrx.com/

 

[Docscurlock]

If the drugs were too expensive people wouldn't buy them. So obviously you are wrong about the drugs being too expensive. People must prefer the effect of taking the drug over hanging onto that cash. And there must not be cheaper alternatives that are acceptable to those people who are purchasing the drug.

I object to your characterization of profits being outrageous. Pretty offensive language.

Regulating prices is the way to shortages and lack of medication. If a company can't profit from their work, they will stop doing the work. Then we ALL lose. The medications won't be available at all.

Drugs are too expensive but it is not "all" the fault of the drug companies, .gov regs and lawsuits keep those prices high. What is the difference between the bottle of celebrex in Mexico and the bottle of celebrex here? In the US if you have a reaction or it causes unintended consequences, both the prescribing doctor and the pharm company may be on the hook for millions in damages, in Mexico, they are not.

 

[Docscurlock]

There is a huge difference between what hospitals and pharmacies charge insurance companies, and what the insurance companies pay. I rarely get stuck with the difference unless it's a non-generic. Read the EOBs from your insurance provider. You can also get coupons for huge discounts here: https://www.goodrx.com/

Just shopping around different pharmacies can save huge amounts of money, just look at humulin N insulin, $185 at Rite Aid and $25 at Walmart. You would be surprised at the difference in prices of different meds at different pharmacies. As a person who pays his own med costs through a HSA, I shop around and sometimes go to 2 different pharmacies in the same day for different meds because of significant price differences.

 

[shogun32]

If the drugs were too expensive people wouldn't buy them.

People DON'T buy them. Your insurance carrier does. That's why they can get away with this racket. Here's an eggregious example - snake anti-venom is $10 in Mexico. $20,000 in AZ. Is that because Americans desperate for the anti-dote are so filthy rich they can pony up whatever it costs to live another day? No. It's fraud and consumer abuse being hidden behind your farce of a medical insurance industry that allows such things to happen.

The US health system is the most dysfunctional and monopoly/restraint of trade friendly ever devised. And it's deliberate.

And there must not be cheaper alternatives that are acceptable to those people who are purchasing the drug.

There is NO alternative product. Because the FDA refuses to honor other equivalent agency certifications, and ALSO prohibits the importation thereof of even the same damn vial from Canada/Mexico back into this country. The system is DELIBERATELY crafted BY CONGRESS to extort obscene money out of the consumer. This crap did not happen before WW2 when medical care was cash on the barrel head and the gov't actually enforced consumer protection.

 

[shogun32]

As a person who pays his own med costs through a HSA, I shop around and sometimes go to 2 different pharmacies in the same day for different meds because of significant price differences.

Go to Mexico/Canada where you can buy it for 1/5th of that and try to cross the border. Same brand, same vial, same country of origin (USA).

The answer to the healthcare crisis in this country is the prosecution of every insurance carrier, device manufacturer and care provider and especially these "co-ops" for violation of Sherman/Clayton, 15USC and similarly 100 year old consumer protection laws. The industry would suffer a MASSIVE crash from 20% of GDP back to 3-5% where it belongs. Administrative staff count would crash an easy 95%, prices would be firm, fixed price and 1/4-1/10 what they are today but more importantly POSTED so everyone can see them and make their choices as to which provider to engage. Your insurance rates would be a pittance and only cover actual externalities. You would get your broken arm X-rayed, and cast for about $100 cash if not a whole lot less. Medical bankruptcies would disappear but also too would the massive pipeline of graft that Congress (America's only native criminal class) enjoy to screw with the industry.

Do you know that there are 10 administrative staff to 1 who actually sees and provides care to the patient?

US healthcare is a crime syndicate CREATED by the US Govt and not one whit different than the huge boost given to the Mob as a result of Prohibition and the huge power and wealth the cartels have amassed by importing schedule 1 drugs.

 

[Docscurlock]

Well, Warren is out, let's see if she plays footsies with Bernie or drop in line with the rest of the democrat establishment.

 

[Hack]

US healthcare is a crime syndicate CREATED by the US Govt and not one whit different than the huge boost given to the Mob as a result of Prohibition and the huge power and wealth the cartels have amassed by importing schedule 1 drugs.

I don't know much about it, but I 100% believe this is possible. Most politicians love a situation where they can receive money from a big company in order to create favorable regulations.

And politicians also like to talk as though they will fix the situation in order to either get re-elected or to extract more "donations" from the big company.

That's why I'm for as few laws and regulations as possible. Every regulation can easily have a corrupt official behind it.

 

[IPOGT]

Meds are expensive here in the US because there are a million regulations, a million hoops to jump through to get them qualified to sell - and then the company can still be sued for millions if someone dies taking the medication.

Other countries it's more of a free for all and there's less liability.

You can't have it both ways. You can't require the company to spend tons of money making sure a drug is safe - still hold them responsible even after going through all the testing and THEN have the drug be super cheap. It's impossible for a company to make money if you do that. All the drug companies will end up out of business.

If you want drugs to be cheap you have to make it cheap to manufacture the drugs and you have to reduce the company's liability if a customer has a medical condition from the drug.

No, but I bet the millions they pay a year for TV advertising would sure put a dent in
the costs "if" it were passed on the the consumer.

 

[IPOGT]

Just shopping around different pharmacies can save huge amounts of money, just look at humulin N insulin, $185 at Rite Aid and $25 at Walmart. You would be surprised at the difference in prices of different meds at different pharmacies. As a person who pays his own med costs through a HSA, I shop around and sometimes go to 2 different pharmacies in the same day for different meds because of significant price differences.

The delta between those two examples exemplify the fact that there is a major problem in the supply chain as well as manufacturing. Assuming its the exact same drug, normal pressures of competition would not allow that to occur on a national basis.

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