I like COVID 19

[Caballus]

1. US military capabilities are in Europe for US purposes. What allows American forces to be here is that our security interests intersect with those of our partners and allies.

2. U.S. force posture in Europe enables U.S. forces in all other regions: Indo-Pacific, Africa, and Middle East, in particular. Europe is an "unsinkable aircraft carrier."

It's not a board game. As the current USEUCOM + NATO SHAPE Commander (Supreme Allied Commander Europe--SACEUR) says, it's about "generating peace."

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[Docscurlock]

Agree with the latter - well I would if we were not in lockdown !

Just because you live in what you believe is the best country in the world doesn't mean the rest of us don't exist, or that we may even be better. The US sure does worry about other countries and their politics - if it didn't then why would it be so involved globally. Lack of knowledge and ignorance of other countries is not something to be proud of, you never know you might learn something useful by broadening your horizons !

Interestingly in an attempt to objectivise it there has been a happiness report for a few years (posted previously) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

US manages 19th and good old UK 15th so we are a little bit happier. Scandinavian countries lead the way however and one of them (Sweden) has a very different approach to COVID that relies on the general public to act responsibly to control spread.

If we could be exposed to more friendly foreigners our happiness level would go up drastically. I'm pretty happy here in the US, could care less about the rest of the world really. It's not lack of knowledge and ignorance it is just not worth our tie.

 

[Docscurlock]

1. US military capabilities are in Europe for US purposes. What allows American forces to be here is that our security interests intersect with those of our partners and allies.

2. U.S. force posture in Europe enables U.S. forces in all other regions: Indo-Pacific, Africa, and Middle East, in particular. Europe is an "unsinkable aircraft carrier."

It's not a board game. As the current USEUCOM + NATO SHAPE Commander (Supreme Allied Commander Europe--SACEUR) says, it's about "generating peace."

1. I understand, fight our enemies on foreign soil instead of tearing up our own home.
2. US force posture allows our "allies" to spend their money on social welfare programs while we spend ours on bullets, jet fuel and bombs.
3. US bases in Europe that allow us to access the middle east are stacked up very nicely to combat old soviet/communist aggression. Nice line drawn from the Northwest to Southeast right across the heart of Europe.

 

[Docscurlock]

As a matter of fact when you look at the middle east map along with Europe you can see a definite demarcation of east v west. From Great Britain to the Saudi Penninsula, US bases are aligned across the middle of Europe to the middle east. To protect Western Europe and the Israelis and oil fields of Saudi from our biggest competitors? China and Russia. I should study the layout of the worldwide network of US bases and see if the Russians and Chinese are hemmed in the other direction too.

 

[Docscurlock]

Yup looks like it

 

[Caballus]

Although some of what you point out is accurate, overall that interpretation is about 30 years behind today's reality from a warfighter's perspective and leaves out about 75% of the strategic equation.

 

[Docscurlock]

Although some of what you point out is accurate, overall that interpretation is about 30 years behind today's reality from a warfighter's perspective and leaves out about 75% of the strategic equation.

Yeah, I know. Gone are the days of the "soviet boogeyman" in are the days of "radical terrorism" but that seems to be fading so my guess is we will be back to "red Chinese scare" before too long. Just think of the money we could save if our "allies" in Europe took care of their own defense needs. I could get a gov pension and retire with full healthcare too.

 

[rick81721]

Agree with the latter - well I would if we were not in lockdown !

Just because you live in what you believe is the best country in the world doesn't mean the rest of us don't exist, or that we may even be better. The US sure does worry about other countries and their politics - if it didn't then why would it be so involved globally. Lack of knowledge and ignorance of other countries is not something to be proud of, you never know you might learn something useful by broadening your horizons !

Interestingly in an attempt to objectivise it there has been a happiness report for a few years (posted previously) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

US manages 19th and good old UK 15th so we are a little bit happier. Scandinavian countries lead the way however and one of them (Sweden) has a very different approach to COVID that relies on the general public to act responsibly to control spread.

Yes but there is a difference between keeping abreast of developments - political or otherwise - in other countries and attempting to directly involve yourself in foreign politics. Maybe it's just me but I don't have the hubris to think I know better than citizens of another country who is best fit/doing the best job as a political leader in said country. I follow what goes on globally but when it comes to politics, I only comment locally. I don't even bother to comment on the political leaders of the state (NJ) that I still reside in as a part-timer. I don't vote there any more so I stay out of it.

But back to something more serious, why can't you go out for a drive? They actually enforce a lockdown that includes no people can go out on a joy ride - enjoying an activity that has zero chance of infecting yourself or others? That's just silly.

 

[Caballus]

Yeah, I know. Gone are the days of the "soviet boogeyman" in are the days of "radical terrorism" but that seems to be fading so my guess is we will be back to "red Chinese scare" before too long. Just think of the money we could save if our "allies" in Europe took care of their own defense needs. I could get a gov pension and retire with full healthcare too.

Soviet boogyman is still there as well and the terrorist has always been there. Think back to 23 Oct 1983 or Achille Lauro in 85, not to mention the hijackings of the 70s. Not new.

Now add the new version of the Soviet boogyman--cyber attacks, information warfare, combined with conventional war (Ukraine invasion, Georgia). Other peer state competitors use similar hybrid approaches (Iran, NK, China). Add still what terrorists and peer actors are doing Africa and how that affects us. The list goes on.

I disagree with the notion that Allies are not taking care of their own defense. Of course, there is room for some to spend more on collective defense, but the way investments are measured for political purposes leaves much to be desired. In addition to a lot of things that simply are not accounted for in the political narrative, it's important to account for the blood they are investing along side us. Single example from last Nov: https://www.militarytimes.com/flash...ldiers-wounded-by-roadside-explosion-in-iraq/

It's a pity we don't teach war in school; I don't mean history. I mean war. It's also a pity that only 1% of our population serves and the majority are not qualified to, but those are different discussions.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes but there is a difference between keeping abreast of developments - political or otherwise - in other countries and attempting to directly involve yourself in foreign politics. Maybe it's just me but I don't have the hubris to think I know better than citizens of another country who is best fit/doing the best job as a political leader in said country. I follow what goes on globally but when it comes to politics, I only comment locally. I don't even bother to comment on the political leaders of the state (NJ) that I still reside in as a part-timer. I don't vote there any more so I stay out of it.

But back to something more serious, why can't you go out for a drive? They actually enforce a lockdown that includes no people can go out on a joy ride - enjoying an activity that has zero chance of infecting yourself or others? That's just silly.

I hardly think taking the piss out of Donald Trump counts as involving myself in foreign politics.

Only essential journeys are allowed in the UK at present so taking the Stang out for a blast doesn't count. We should be grateful, the lockdown in France only allows you out with a written permit for one of five essential activities (and leisure is up to 1km) Italy is even worse where children have not been allowed outside for 6 weeks, Spain is similar.

If you get gobby in Italy this is what happens to you

 

[Hack]

Yes but there is a difference between keeping abreast of developments - political or otherwise - in other countries and attempting to directly involve yourself in foreign politics. Maybe it's just me but I don't have the hubris to think I know better than citizens of another country who is best fit/doing the best job as a political leader in said country. I follow what goes on globally but when it comes to politics, I only comment locally. I don't even bother to comment on the political leaders of the state (NJ) that I still reside in as a part-timer. I don't vote there any more so I stay out of it.

But back to something more serious, why can't you go out for a drive? They actually enforce a lockdown that includes no people can go out on a joy ride - enjoying an activity that has zero chance of infecting yourself or others? That's just silly.

Right. For instance, the people of the UK voted to get out of the EU, but their politicians didn't want to do it and kept fighting about it for a long time. I'm curious about what someone from the UK thinks about it, but I don't feel that I know enough to start insulting specific politicians from the UK.

Some people from the US earlier in this thread were saying that it was irresponsible for me to go out for a drive. So, there are a lot of people that seem ready to give up all freedom and civil rights. But then one of those people also said he was out fueling up his vehicle. So maybe it's more like they are ready for me to give up my civil liberties but they want to keep theirs?

 

[rick81721]

Right. For instance, the people of the UK voted to get out of the EU, but their politicians didn't want to do it and kept fighting about it for a long time. I'm curious about what someone from the UK thinks about it, but I don't feel that I know enough to start insulting specific politicians from the UK.

Some people from the US earlier in this thread were saying that it was irresponsible for me to go out for a drive. So, there are a lot of people that seem ready to give up all freedom and civil rights. But then one of those people also said he was out fueling up his vehicle. So maybe it's more like they are ready for me to give up my civil liberties but they want to keep theirs?

Irresponsible to go out for a completely safe drive? That activity has zero chance of contributing to covid spread. I go out for a drive every other day. I also can't imagine how the US could possibly enforce such an order, short of declaring Martial law and having soldiers everywhere.

 

[watisthis]

Some people from the US earlier in this thread were saying that it was irresponsible for me to go out for a drive. So, there are a lot of people that seem ready to give up all freedom and civil rights. But then one of those people also said he was out fueling up his vehicle. So maybe it's more like they are ready for me to give up my civil liberties but they want to keep theirs?

No one said that and no one is asking you to give up your rights, shut up already.

 

[Docscurlock]

I hardly think taking the piss out of Donald Trump counts as involving myself in foreign politics.

Only essential journeys are allowed in the UK at present so taking the Stang out for a blast doesn't count. We should be grateful, the lockdown in France only allows you out with a written permit for one of five essential activities (and leisure is up to 1km) Italy is even worse where children have not been allowed outside for 6 weeks, Spain is similar.

If you get gobby in Italy this is what happens to you

Difference between citizens and subjects. recently here in Michigan.

 

[Gregs24]

Difference between citizens and subjects. recently here in Michigan.

They would be the people that Trump said were all 6 feet apart would they? Looks like an armed mob to me rather than a freedom protest. Why does anybody need an automatic rifle at a protest about lockdown, other than for intimidation.

Trump has encouraged this and encouraged bully boys onto the streets.

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