I like COVID 19

[Caballus]

I think you are joking, but you have been arguing for lockdown, not freedom. Maybe I'm just not getting the point. You are willing to die from a bullet but you are a germophobe?

Not joking at all. If someone really wants to serve the country, there are plenty of ways to do it. Just need to step up.

Far from a germaphobe, and bullets are the simplest and least likely way to die in "this" business, particularly when you've been in it for a while. Try continuing the attack after getting rocked by an IED created from a dud U.S. GBU or having your boys alternate between MOPP2 and MOPP4 for months on end. Can you relate? When you can we can have a conversation about germaphobia.

The whining back home, where families are that Americans making daily sacrifices don't have access to, is just that. Whining. The whiners need to suck it up: lead, follow, or get out of the way.

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[Docscurlock]

I think you are joking, but you have been arguing for lockdown, not freedom. Maybe I'm just not getting the point. You are willing to die from a bullet but you are a germophobe?

Arguing for lockdown because we don't want to see Americans dieing.

 

[Gregs24]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/10/coro...istinct-strains-spread-across-world-12536852/

Link to a report on an interesting paper covering genomic testing of COVID19. It seems that for the US the virus arrived directly from China by returning US citizens, rather than from Europe.

There may also be differences in morbidity and mortality with different strains.

 

[Hack]

Arguing for lockdown because we don't want to see Americans dieing.

Sorry, but if the internet is correct I believe the typical yearly death rate is about 8.8 per thousand people. With there being 327,000,000 people here in the US, if I can do math that means 2,877,600 Americans die every year. So there's a lot of death and a lot to be sad about (or to give up our civil liberties over).

The average daily deaths in the US are typically around 7,700.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-nyt-reporter-challenging-the-coronavirus-narrative

 

[Docscurlock]

Sorry, but if the internet is correct I believe the typical yearly death rate is about 8.8 per thousand people. With there being 327,000,000 people here in the US, if I can do math that means 2,877,600 Americans die every year. So there's a lot of death and a lot to be sad about (or to give up our civil liberties over).

The average daily deaths in the US are typically around 7,700.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-nyt-reporter-challenging-the-coronavirus-narrative

Care to speculate on how many influenza deaths a year in the US if there was no vaccinations? If we weren't all naïve to CV19 the whole lockdown would be unessential.

 

[Burkey]

Neither have any of your fallacious retorts.

The problem with positive claims is that they require positive evidence.

 

[Burkey]

I've been in hospitals. Yes it takes work to modify rooms for different usages. However it can be done. I'm not paying attention, but I did see something about equipment used to produce negative pressure. Reminded me of asbestos remediation in places that do that with strict controls.

Frankly it freaks me out that the authorities are talking about fining people for doing "non essentials" in public. It's a totalitarian's dream.



Yep the "experts" are advising caution - as they should. Frankly the more time passes the more I think it was hugely overstated originally. At first I had a very open mind and I was definitely worried. I remember when a number of 2 million dead Americans was floated. I realize there was no deadline with that number, but I was assuming it meant in the next few months (starting from late January). Now a few months have passed and we have ~11,000. That original number seemed insane to me, but I was trying really hard to reserve judgement. Now we have a lot more information and most of it contradicts those early statements (in my opinion).

I'm not trying to do a gotcha thing. I'm merely trying to separate reality and facts from the fear mongering. And in my own interests I'm questioning dictatorial/totalitarian infringements to the American people along with huge left wing style handouts that are being implemented by the government.

I think you’re missing the point somewhat.

Let’s imagine for one second that only 10% of the people infected are actually confirmed.
You have ~ 562,000 cases with roughly 22,000 deaths so far, 43,000 recovered.
That’s 5,000,000 Americans infected. Only another 323,000,000 to go.

How many deaths does that equate to? By my math that puts the US somewhere upward of a million deaths. A 1% death rate puts it at over 3 million of course, but were trying to be as optimistic as possible here and we’re assuming that every person who needs care can receive it.
The statistics for the uncontrolled spread seem to suggest that the US could hit a point where you’re losing more people per day than the the US lost for the entirety of the Second World War.

Is the final figure acceptable?
How many is too many?

I’m not a US citizen so I’m not about to tell you how patriotism works but I think every single one of those soldiers who died for your freedom would bitch-slap you in a heartbeat if they thought you weren’t doing your level best to protect the citizens, just as they did.
You’re being asked to stay at home.
You’re not being asked to go and die in a foreign country.

 

[Hack]

I think you’re missing the point somewhat.

Let’s imagine for one second that only 10% of the people infected are actually confirmed.
You have ~ 562,000 cases with roughly 22,000 deaths so far, 43,000 recovered.
That’s 5,000,000 Americans infected. Only another 323,000,000 to go.

How many deaths does that equate to? By my math that puts the US somewhere upward of a million deaths. A 1% death rate puts it at over 3 million of course, but were trying to be as optimistic as possible here and we’re assuming that every person who needs care can receive it.
The statistics for the uncontrolled spread seem to suggest that the US could hit a point where you’re losing more people per day than the the US lost for the entirety of the Second World War.

Is the final figure acceptable?
How many is too many?

I’m not a US citizen so I’m not about to tell you how patriotism works but I think every single one of those soldiers who died for your freedom would bitch-slap you in a heartbeat if they thought you weren’t doing your level best to protect the citizens, just as they did.
You’re being asked to stay at home.
You’re not being asked to go and die in a foreign country.

So you think people who died for the country's freedom would want us to throw that freedom away without even saying anything? Then their deaths would be meaningless!

Back when they died for our freedom there were a lot of serious illnesses that killed and crippled many more people than this disease will. Those people would shake their heads in disbelief that some people would want to give up their freedom over a disease with a 98% recovery rate. Back when we thought this disease would kill a lot of people the strategies completely made sense. We are setting dangerous precedents now, though.

I think everyone in the country should share those soldiers' willingness to die for their country. Not in a stupid fashion, but also not putting ourselves into cages because we are terrified of the latest bogeyman. People who are vulnerable are free to isolate. People who are afraid but not especially vulnerable are free to stay in their houses if that's what they want (no handouts for them, though). Everyone else should also be allowed to be free as well.

I would be willing to bet most people in the US have already caught this disease. You want to believe that only about 1% have caught it. I bet the number is more like 50% and it could be much higher.

There's no getting rid of this disease. It is going to continue going around and it will mutate. All other viruses that spread easily do those things. We will never eliminate the cold, flu or versions of Corona.

 

[Burkey]

So you think people who died for the country's freedom would want us to throw that freedom away without even saying anything? Then their deaths would be meaningless!

Back when they died for our freedom there were a lot of serious illnesses that killed and crippled many more people than this disease will. Those people would shake their heads in disbelief that some people would want to give up their freedom over a disease with a 98% recovery rate. Back when we thought this disease would kill a lot of people the strategies completely made sense. We are setting dangerous precedents now, though.

I think everyone in the country should share those soldiers' willingness to die for their country. Not in a stupid fashion, but also not putting ourselves into cages because we are terrified of the latest bogeyman. People who are vulnerable are free to isolate. People who are afraid but not especially vulnerable are free to stay in their houses if that's what they want (no handouts for them, though). Everyone else should also be allowed to be free as well.

I would be willing to bet most people in the US have already caught this disease. You want to believe that only about 1% have caught it. I bet the number is more like 50% and it could be much higher.

There's no getting rid of this disease. It is going to continue going around and it will mutate. All other viruses that spread easily do those things. We will never eliminate the cold, flu or versions of Corona.

You’re possibly correct that we can’t eliminate it completely. My crystal ball doesn’t have enough clarity to argue against that.
But.
If you continue on with business as usual, you’re going to force healthcare workers to decide who lives and who dies, just like in Italy There simply isn’t enough equipment to support all of them.
So, you have an otherwise healthy 40 yo come in to the ICU, followed by a 50 yo who also needs a respirator. Who do you choose? How do you explain to a family that the life of their loved one wasn’t important enough to warrant the required care?
How do you explain to them that they died for someone else’s perception of “freedom”?
I don’t think these are decisions that should be forced onto anyone. But that’s me.

 

[watisthis]

So you think people who died for the country's freedom would want us to throw that freedom away without even saying anything? Then their deaths would be meaningless!

Yeah, I went overseas 6 times so that people could complain about their freedoms being thrown away because they can't cope with stopping the spread of a virus, what a first world, mentally weak problem to have. I would also like you to tell that to the sailors who were on board the USS Theodore Roosevelt, service members who have had family die from this pandemic or a VA hospital whose treating veterans affected with covid19.

Try not to assume what our service stands for if you've never served. Better yet, help provide for the thousands of veterans who are unemployed or are struggling right now, that would be a better use of your time than using our service as your high ground.

 

[Gregs24]

So you think people who died for the country's freedom would want us to throw that freedom away without even saying anything?

There's no getting rid of this disease. It is going to continue going around and it will mutate. All other viruses that spread easily do those things. We will never eliminate the cold, flu or versions of Corona.

Freedom comes tied to responsibility. A temporary loss of 'freedom' which results in a benefit to the whole population is not something anybody can argue against. The definition of freedom is 'the ability to act or change without undue or unjust constraints', a disease lockdown is absolutely a justified constraint.

As to your suggestions for COVID19 - whilst it will mutate (it already has at least 4 times) there is no reason why it cannot be controlled by vaccination. In fact the relatively low rate of mutation will probably help this,plus how it is mutating is important.

All other viruses that spread easily do those things - the rate of spread and mutation rate are two different things. There are viruses that 'spread' much more efficiently than COVID19 that are controlled by vaccination.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...cov-2-genome-is-good-news-for-a-vaccine-67319

 

[Caballus]

I absolutely agree that citizens must keep an eye on their freedoms and set limits to what the government can do. However, the folks back home complaining most about having their freedoms limited are not, in my opinion, demonstrating courage or patriotism. They are showing a lack thereof--lack of moral courage that is. They are also showing a lack of self-discipline and a general sense of entitlement--something many try to associate only with millennials but is actually (again in my opinion) a defining quality across our society. Believe the answer is to stop whining and suck it up so professionals can do their jobs. In the meantime, focus on holding the federal, state and local governments responsible for having a logical transition plan (by getting directly involved at the local level) and volunteering to help where it is needed, to include testing for vaccines. That is courage, patriotism and civic responsibility.

 

[Hack]

Freedom comes tied to responsibility. A temporary loss of 'freedom' which results in a benefit to the whole population is not something anybody can argue against. The definition of freedom is 'the ability to act or change without undue or unjust constraints', a disease lockdown is absolutely a justified constraint.

As to your suggestions for COVID19 - whilst it will mutate (it already has at least 4 times) there is no reason why it cannot be controlled by vaccination. In fact the relatively low rate of mutation will probably help this,plus how it is mutating is important.

All other viruses that spread easily do those things - the rate of spread and mutation rate are two different things. There are viruses that 'spread' much more efficiently than COVID19 that are controlled by vaccination.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...cov-2-genome-is-good-news-for-a-vaccine-67319

Vaccinations don't work for the flu, so I would be surprised if they work for this. Obviously I'd love you to be right though.

I absolutely agree that citizens must keep an eye on their freedoms and set limits to what the government can do. However, the folks back home complaining most about having their freedoms limited are not, in my opinion, demonstrating courage or patriotism. They are showing a lack thereof--lack of moral courage that is. They are also showing a lack of self-discipline and a general sense of entitlement--something many try to associate only with millennials but is actually (again in my opinion) a defining quality across our society. Believe the answer is to stop whining and suck it up so professionals can do their jobs. In the meantime, focus on holding the federal, state and local governments responsible for having a logical transition plan (by getting directly involved at the local level) and volunteering to help where it is needed, to include testing for vaccines. That is courage, patriotism and civic responsibility.

Well, thanks again for your opinion. I think some people arguing for freedoms to go away are very cowardly as well as being selfish. They don't seem to realize that all lives can't be saved and that we all will die. Preventing a collapse of hospitals is smart and for now it looks like the immediate possibility of that was averted. But we shouldn't shelter in place for long. Most of the US should not have sheltered as far as I can tell. We need the disease to continue spreading while limiting the rate of spread to manageable levels.

I think so far most of what is being done is for the best. My main purpose of saying anything here is to get people thinking about the future, when certain factions are going to try to take advantage of this precedent. It is already happening now. Some people want to change our way of life, and this is just the latest excuse they can use.

 

[Caballus]

Vaccinations don't work for the flu, so I would be surprised if they work for this. Obviously I'd love you to be right though.


Well, thanks again for your opinion. I think some people arguing for freedoms to go away are very cowardly as well. They don't seem to realize that all lives can't be saved and that we all will die. Preventing a collapse of hospitals is smart and for now it looks like the immediate possibility of that was averted. But we shouldn't shelter in place for long. Most of the US should not have sheltered as far as I can tell. We need the disease to continue spreading while limiting the rate of spread to manageable levels.

I think so far most of what is being done is for the best. My main purpose of saying anything here is to get people thinking about the future, when certain factions are going to try to take advantage of this precedent. It is already happening now. Some people want to change our way of life, and this is just the latest excuse they can use.

As I said, in my opinion most people complaining are doing absolutely nothing else. They are not the least bit involved in anything other than processing food. Thinking about the future without doing anything to actively contribute, regardless of beliefs, is useless. We are known by what we do... If we are true to our American principles, then everyone has to tighten up the pack straps and hump their own weight, and at times help hump their buddies' weight as well. Many are doing just that, while many are simply talking.

 

[Hack]

As I said, in my opinion most people complaining are doing absolutely nothing else. They are not the least bit involved in anything other than processing food. Thinking about the future without doing anything to actively contribute, regardless of beliefs, is useless. We are known by what we do... If we are true to our American principles, then everyone has to tighten up the pack straps and hump their own weight, and at times help hump their buddies' weight as well. Many are doing just that, while many are simply talking.

And many people could be helping but are actually hurting others through their actions. If they can't help others, they should at least try to avoid hurting them.

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