HPDE Suspension thoughts

[MikeJ1033]

I have decided solicite some suspension thoughts in this thread specific to track / hpde events. I have been attending some track days and I am slowly adding components to my 15' GT premium as my confidence and ability increases. I am looking at suspension upgrades and I have a couple different strategies. I am not looking to reinvent the wheel here and I have received quality advice off of this forum from some knowledgeable folks.

Option 1 - Ford Performance Track Suspension kit - kind of like the idea of a convienent turn key package with all components specified to work with each other. No spring compressor needed. Install pretty straight forward. Still trying to get enough confidence to tackle rear spring install.

Option 2 - Steeda Dual Rate HPDE kit https://www.steeda.com/Steeda-S550-Mustang-HPDE-Suspension-Package-15-18-555-2357. - adjustable dampers, sway bars, and dual rate competition springs. Somewhat turn key again which is nice, but can I over adjust myself into trouble trying to get cute at an intermediate driving level as far as wear and tear or drivability on the track. And has anyone on here ever broken the rear shock mount? I see Steeda is highly recommending the billet replacement when purchasing dampers.

Option 3 - I like the idea of a BMR Koni adjustable combo as well

Option 4 - Roush coilovers. Have a lot of roush components on my car and have been happy, single adjustable are affordable. Could pair them with a good sway bar set up. I am assuming if going the coil over route camber plates would be required.

Running eighteen inch Apex wheels on track days. From the experienced track guys here, should I slowly integrate dampers and springs first then slowly add other components slowly to maintain confidence in the car. I understand every time you make a mod such as this it requires some relearning so to speak. Is throwing a large kit all at once also possibly inviting trouble.

Kind of all over the place I know just curious what thoughts are out there.

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[1 old racer]

All your choices were probably done by people on this forum. I am not all that aggressive on the track with my Mustang, When I take her out it is to just have some fun. I started with a PP1 so you may have to add a few things that I didnt have too. My setup which is Ford racing track springs struts and shocks. Steeda adjustable sway bars and end links, Steeda bump steer end links, Megan jacking rails. I have used my OEM Brembo pads without any complaints. However, I will be running Gloc R12/R10 next time out and keeping the Brembo's for daily driving. I ran with PS4s rubber but will be moving up to a set of stickies soon just for track time The Diff did give me a "overtemp" warning so I wrapped them in header tape from the end of the x-pipe to the exhaust hangers. So far no warning, but we will see this summer. I love this set up because i drive this car everyday to work.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Konis and the Steeda shocks are not really recommended by anyone who can afford better. MCS shocks are entry point for serious track use.

I would caution most novices about going too stiff with springs or swaybars if your havent put in the hours and hours of practice catching small slides before they turn into tank slappers or spins. A stiff car reacts faster. It can be quicker to correct mistakes, but things get out of hand more quickly too. Body roll is your friend while you’re learning. Its feedback.

So, why are you looking to change suspension components? Is the current car dynamics deficient or lacking in some way that you can explain? If not, I’d say keep things as they are until you have good reason to change them. You can go pretty damn fast and learn a lot with a nearly stock suspension.

Camber plates may help with tire wear. Adjustable swaybars and/or shocks can help you dial in adjustments IF you know what needs changing.

In general, a stiffer suspension wont make you any faster if you cant drive a soft suspension quickly.

 

[MikeJ1033]

Thanks for the responses,

I have had the opportunity to drive a stiffer set up and preferred it for the track application. It felt better for sure. I don't normally go crazy with lap times etc and I was in a different car so I can't tell you what the exact translation would be for my car. I plan on attending a driving school next month and in race prepped cars. I have also had some seat time in karts with essentially no real suspension componentry what so ever, I totally get what you mean regarding the correction and car reaction. I have dumped one with over confidence.

I am primarily looking for help in reducing over all understeer, better balance during braking (nose dive), a reduction in body roll to increase mechanical grip. I understand going too stiff can actually reduce grip and cause the opposite and result in oversteer. Just trying to find a balance in between. Obviously there will be a lower center of gravity with the ride height change, but I don't factor an inch or so drop to be a huge (could be wrong).

My camber plate dilemma was trying to figure out if they were required. I don't plan on skimming the ground. I didn't know if I got a solid alignment if I would need them if I went the non adjustable fixed route (i.e. ford performance kit etc).

I debated the adjustable route to soften it up for daily and being able to dial it up for track use, but trial and error with dialing track settings make me a little nervous. Thanks for the info on the MCS, I had seen them before but they are too expensive for my budget.

I have upgraded my braking package to brembos and plan on running most likely Gloc pads. I am not running a race tire, not ready for that yet. I am guessing tires will ultimately probably be my weak point for a bit both in grip and stopping.

 

[BmacIL]

I'm a big fan of some version of option 3.

 

[Grintch]

Do you have a PP? If not upgraded brakes should be on your list.

I am running option 1. First track day showed I needed more camber, so added the Steeda camber plates. Also running heavy synthetic trans & diff oil to help make up for the lack of coolers.

I wouldn't worry about doing it all at once for a matched kit from a single supplier. It is almost certainly cheaper that way for installation. If you are mixing and matching parts, doing it in steps would help identify compatibility issues.

 

[MikeJ1033]

I upgraded to the Brembo package and will likely run Gloc pads this year. Going to install the FTB or JLT brake cooling kit also (likely while installing front suspension). I Have a GT Premium so the suspension is bone stock. Also running heavier BG diff oil from opmustang. Haven't experienced too much overheating on the diff like some other people have. I may do some exhaust wrap while I am at it for a little extra help.

Good to know on the camber plates, I am leaning toward just biting the bullet and doing them now versus wishing I would have later.

Any advice from anyone on any manufacturer combo's that did not get along and/or not go as planned?

 

[SteedaTech]

I have decided solicite some suspension thoughts in this thread specific to track / hpde events. I have been attending some track days and I am slowly adding components to my 15' GT premium as my confidence and ability increases. I am looking at suspension upgrades and I have a couple different strategies. I am not looking to reinvent the wheel here and I have received quality advice off of this forum from some knowledgeable folks.

Option 1 - Ford Performance Track Suspension kit - kind of like the idea of a convienent turn key package with all components specified to work with each other. No spring compressor needed. Install pretty straight forward. Still trying to get enough confidence to tackle rear spring install.

Option 2 - Steeda Dual Rate HPDE kit https://www.steeda.com/Steeda-S550-Mustang-HPDE-Suspension-Package-15-18-555-2357. - adjustable dampers, sway bars, and dual rate competition springs. Somewhat turn key again which is nice, but can I over adjust myself into trouble trying to get cute at an intermediate driving level as far as wear and tear or drivability on the track. And has anyone on here ever broken the rear shock mount? I see Steeda is highly recommending the billet replacement when purchasing dampers.

Option 3 - I like the idea of a BMR Koni adjustable combo as well

Option 4 - Roush coilovers. Have a lot of roush components on my car and have been happy, single adjustable are affordable. Could pair them with a good sway bar set up. I am assuming if going the coil over route camber plates would be required.

Running eighteen inch Apex wheels on track days. From the experienced track guys here, should I slowly integrate dampers and springs first then slowly add other components slowly to maintain confidence in the car. I understand every time you make a mod such as this it requires some relearning so to speak. Is throwing a large kit all at once also possibly inviting trouble.

Kind of all over the place I know just curious what thoughts are out there.

Option two, is used by more HPDE enthusiasts than any other brand. This kit is very fast on track, winning many SCCA

T1 events!

 

[Hack]

I would spend the money on track days and consumables rather than changing suspension components such as springs/sways/shocks. You aren't in a timed race where you'll win prize money if you are 1/2 a second faster per lap. And I personally wouldn't have the confidence that I would pick the best combination that would improve things without causing the car to become annoying to drive on the street or even causing some different handling problem on track.

Or just trade up for a Mustang that comes with the additional suspension firmness / body control you want. I would get something with magneride if I were shopping. I trust the Ford systems more than aftermarket versions. Most aftermarket companies just don't have the development resources that Ford does.

Having said all that - I would consider adding smaller aftermarket things like under body braces and rear subframe lock outs. Just not "suspension kits".

 

[1 old racer]

Konis and the Steeda shocks are not really recommended by anyone who can afford better. MCS shocks are entry point for serious track use.

I would caution most novices about going too stiff with springs or swaybars if your havent put in the hours and hours of practice catching small slides before they turn into tank slappers or spins. A stiff car reacts faster. It can be quicker to correct mistakes, but things get out of hand more quickly too. Body roll is your friend while you’re learning. Its feedback.

So, why are you looking to change suspension components? Is the current car dynamics deficient or lacking in some way that you can explain? If not, I’d say keep things as they are until you have good reason to change them. You can go pretty damn fast and learn a lot with a nearly stock suspension.

Camber plates may help with tire wear. Adjustable swaybars and/or shocks can help you dial in adjustments IF you know what needs changing.

In general, a stiffer suspension wont make you any faster if you cant drive a soft suspension quickly.

After reading all the opinions noted above, including my own, I must agree with NightmareMoon. start with OEM till you get use to it. By far the best mod any track whore can make is seat time.

 

[Grintch]

Option two, is used by more HPDE enthusiasts than any other brand. This kit is very fast on track, winning many SCCA T1 events!

I thought your T1 car was running your full coilovers?

 

[BMR Tech]

Not sure how companies can factually state that their products are used by more enthusiasts, than other's - but okay!

@MikeJ1033 I would be happy to assist you if you would like to call. I set suspensions up all day long, Monday through Sunday.

While I do think the Ford Performance package is a decent system for the price, I personally feel that HPDE enthusiasts should start with a package of parts that is a little less and then cater each modification based on your feedback. I really never package a one-size fits all set up and recommend it to the masses. I prefer to cater the system to the person, their wants and their needs.

I usually tell my customers to start with a nice quality set of handling inspired springs and a good quality set of dampers to control the increased oscillation.

I am a big fan of our linear handling springs. They pair extremely well with most dampers out there to include Koni, Bilstein and the Ford Performance Track damper kit (which I really like)

Here is a very simple system that I would put against anything else out there for the price tag:

BMR-SP083 Handling Spring Kit (SP083)
Ford Performance Track Damper Kit
BMR-BK081 Rear Arm Bearing Kit
BMR-CBK760 Front Arm Bearing Kit
BMR-CB762 IRS Bracing System
Ford Performance Toe Knuckle Bearing Kit (M-5A460-M)

Something like that is going to make for a really nice riding and handling car, without increasing NVH above and beyond levels that most would deem unacceptable.

Past that point, you really need to get a feel for how you want the car to act and respond. Balancing with weight and sway bar, changing grip with tires, pushing the car harder each time out, etc.

I personally like to have people choose sway bars lastly. Many of my customers are moving towards large front bars and either stock GT or GT350 rear bars.

If you want to reach out to me, shoot me a call at your convenience.

Good luck!

 

[BmacIL]

Not sure how companies can factually state that their products are used by more enthusiasts, than other's - but okay!

@MikeJ1033 I would be happy to assist you if you would like to call. I set suspensions up all day long, Monday through Sunday.

While I do think the Ford Performance package is a decent system for the price, I personally feel that HPDE enthusiasts should start with a package of parts that is a little less and then cater each modification based on your feedback. I really never package a one-size fits all set up and recommend it to the masses. I prefer to cater the system to the person, their wants and their needs.

I usually tell my customers to start with a nice quality set of handling inspired springs and a good quality set of dampers to control the increased oscillation.

I am a big fan of our linear handling springs. They pair extremely well with most dampers out there to include Koni, Bilstein and the Ford Performance Track damper kit (which I really like)

Here is a very simple system that I would put against anything else out there for the price tag:

BMR-SP083 Handling Spring Kit (SP083)
Ford Performance Track Damper Kit
BMR-BK081 Rear Arm Bearing Kit
BMR-CBK760 Front Arm Bearing Kit
BMR-CB762 IRS Bracing System
Ford Performance Toe Knuckle Bearing Kit (M-5A460-M)

Something like that is going to make for a really nice riding and handling car, without increasing NVH above and beyond levels that most would deem unacceptable.

Past that point, you really need to get a feel for how you want the car to act and respond. Balancing with weight and sway bar, changing grip with tires, pushing the car harder each time out, etc.

I personally like to have people choose sway bars lastly. Many of my customers are moving towards large front bars and either stock GT or GT350 rear bars.

If you want to reach out to me, shoot me a call at your convenience.

Good luck!

Yeah, all that!

 

[MikeJ1033]

Thanks for the replies guys, still researching and trying to do some homework. I like all of the ideas I have received. Bearing swaps make me a little nervous. I have seen FTB's bearing tool which would be a necessity for me. I certainly see the upside to doing them, just need to get the nerve to tackle them.

I will reach out to you this week Kelly, thanks

 

[BmacIL]

Thanks for the replies guys, still researching and trying to do some homework. I like all of the ideas I have received. Bearing swaps make me a little nervous. I have seen FTB's bearing tool which would be a necessity for me. I certainly see the upside to doing them, just need to get the nerve to tackle them.

I will reach out to you this week Kelly, thanks

After doing the bearing swaps, I can say that I wish I had done them earlier. The handling and ride improvements are significant. A little more noise from bumps but everything else is better for someone who likes a handling car.

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