How obtrusive is safe and smart?

[Norm Peterson]

I supposed the exception to this is the braking system, which will engage the brakes if you're too close to another car and still getting closer. Bottom line is though, if that system engages you're either 1. not paying attention 2. driving like a shit head.

So what does it do when somebody cuts a car with brake assist off? Are you going to blame the driver being cut off for that, too? What if it sees a damaged guardrail on the outside of a curve and thinks it's a stopped car? No. Thank. You.

If I'm anywhere near on my game - which my driving record over the last 40 years or so supports as being the case - I don't want my car deciding to do anything on its own except keep its engine running. There is certainly some cost involved with the momentary distraction that such nanny interventions create ("WTF just happened/did something on my car just break?" moments).


Norm

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[gamecoc430]

Use the safety features, or not. Your choice. I use mine, like the features, and they have saved my bacon more than once. False alerts? Not really, but when a car directly in front of me slows down to turn right, and I don't slow down, the red heads-up lights will flash, and if I do nothing the brakes will begin to slow me down. The Mustang can't read the car in front turn signals and doesn't know it's turning off and getting out of my way. I just tap the brakes to let my Mustang I see the car and I'm probably going to slow down. Problem solved. In the mountains with very sharp left hand turns, it has given me a warning when the car directly in front of me entered the turn first and it assumed a car was stopped in front of me. Only time it has ever bothered me.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'd need to be able to shut them off completely.

Something like a too-conservative heads-up warning (and they will be more conservative rather than less so) would be more of a distraction than added value as long as I'm paying much attention at all to my driving (that I do pay attention does seem to be the case).

I can't even guess how anybody else is reacting to warnings such as these when they're occurring out on the road (including any passengers who might also notice them and how they might react).


Norm

 

[gamecoc430]

Passengers in my car can't see the red lights. The heads-up display is designed to be seen only straight on. Now if someone was squeezed in the back seat, well, they'd have more problems than seeing red lights flash on the windshield!

 

[Bullitt]

The only thing on the Safe and Smart package that can't be turned off is the auto braking according to the owner's manual. You can decrease it's sensitivity but I don't think you can turn it off completely. If you can, then I think it comes back on so each time you start the car you'd have to go into the settings and disable it.

I'm so happy on the Bullitt the optional Electronics package gives BLIS and memory seats, but all the other stuff from Safe & Smart isn't included. Perfect package for me.

 

[TomcatDriver]

The only thing on the Safe and Smart package that can't be turned off is the auto braking according to the owner's manual. You can decrease it's sensitivity but I don't think you can turn it off completely. If you can, then I think it comes back on so each time you start the car you'd have to go into the settings and disable it.

I'm so happy on the Bullitt the optional Electronics package gives BLIS and memory seats, but all the other stuff from Safe & Smart isn't included. Perfect package for me.

I would be surprised if auto-braking couldn't be turned off in Track mode. That would seem bad. Auto clubs have banned cars from the track that can't turn off the nannies.

 

[Bullitt]

I would be surprised if auto-braking couldn't be turned off in Track mode. That would seem bad. Auto clubs have banned cars from the track that can't turn off the nannies.

Re-checked the owner's manual and it says it turns off when AdvanceTrac is manually disabled and when certain drive modes are selected. It doesn't say specifically what they are but I'm guessing Track mode. So I guess as long as you are in track mode or have fully defeated all stability and traction control, it won't cut in. I know for other cars on track days some people just tape over the sensors which gives you an error message and they just deal with that instead.

 

[Madtel4]

Gee, it seems this exact subject came up recently in another thread.

I wouldn't say your driving like a s-head if you get close to the car in fromt of you before passing. When I was taught to drive, that was the rule. You don't overtake another car from 4 car lengths back. You get closer to the car in front of you before changing lanes, then you change lanes to pass. I agree that there should always be plenty of room in the lane you're changing into. Even if there is a car over there, you shouldn't cut them off, but it's not like you're moving into their lane and staying there. There should be plenty of space soon after you lane change since you're accelerating and basically passing both cars.

So the minimum of a two-second gap is out if you are accelerating to pass? That is driving like a S head.
Lee

 

[Matco]

Why buy a 2018 Mustang with all the nannies and turn them all off :shrug:

For people with 2018 and have the safe and smart package how often/much do the systems (lane assist and auto braking) come on? Say you are in traffic and want to cut over and the systems think there is not enough room will it still allow you to move over or will they kick in and keep you in your lane? A buddy on mine has a 2016 Cadillac and it has the BLIS and lane assist and so on, he was telling me he had to take the car back to the dealer to have them shut those systems off because the lane assist would keep him from changing lanes if the system thought there wasn't enough room regardless if there was. I sometimes find myself cutting my way through LA traffic and don't want the system to stop me LOL Is there a way to go into the settings of the car and turn off say the lane assist or other features or does the dealer have to. I'm getting the safe and smart package only for the memory seats and BLIS

 

[HeavyMetalMonk]

So what does it do when somebody cuts a car with brake assist off? Are you going to blame the driver being cut off for that, too? What if it sees a damaged guardrail on the outside of a curve and thinks it's a stopped car? No. Thank. You.

If I'm anywhere near on my game - which my driving record over the last 40 years or so supports as being the case - I don't want my car deciding to do anything on its own except keep its engine running. There is certainly some cost involved with the momentary distraction that such nanny interventions create ("WTF just happened/did something on my car just break?" moments).


Norm

If you get cut off and you have the ACC on it smoothly engages the brakes to increase the distance. I didn't blame the driver of the cut off car, I really didn't expect someone to take my statement 100% literal. Obviously there's always exceptions.

The car would treat a stopped car on the guardrail just like it treats a slower car in the lane next to you. It won't register on the ACC or the braking system.

I've been driving for a long time too and never been in a wreck. I'm not a Luddite though and can recognize that better tech can be helpful in some circumstances.

Last night again I drove from LA to North County San Diego. Idiots would keep driving like idiots and I can cruise along in the fast lane keeping a nice distance from the car in front of me without having to disengage and re-engage CC over and over again. It's a fantastic system. If you don't want it fine, but it's ridiculous to judge those who do. Freeway driving sucks anyway.

 

[HeavyMetalMonk]

I'd need to be able to shut them off completely.

Something like a too-conservative heads-up warning (and they will be more conservative rather than less so) would be more of a distraction than added value as long as I'm paying much attention at all to my driving (that I do pay attention does seem to be the case).

I can't even guess how anybody else is reacting to warnings such as these when they're occurring out on the road (including any passengers who might also notice them and how they might react).


Norm

The reaction to the red light HUD is pretty much the same reaction to the red light brake lights in front of you.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The car would treat a stopped car on the guardrail just like it treats a slower car in the lane next to you. It won't register on the ACC or the braking system.

I didn't mean a stopped car near a guardrail because what it does in that situation had better be the obvious thing. What I do want to know is what happens when a damaged guardrail reflects back a strong enough signal to look like a stopped car.

I've been driving for a long time too and never been in a wreck. I'm not a Luddite though and can recognize that better tech can be helpful in some circumstances.

Perhaps you haven't experienced improper or unreasonably conservative activities by any of these things. I have. What you may prefer to tag with 'Luddite' is skepticism based on experience from here.

Last night again I drove from LA to North County San Diego. Idiots would keep driving like idiots and I can cruise along in the fast lane keeping a nice distance from the car in front of me without having to disengage and re-engage CC over and over again.

I don't even use regular CC. Ever, except on extremely rare occasion to see if it still works at all. My wife doesn't use it either. Not doing so may be helping us stay connected to the matter of driving (as opposed to staying connected to anything and everything else). This may be a small percentage play kind of thing, but I'm convinced that it helps at least a little. Same goes for exclusively driving cars with MT.

The reaction to the red light HUD is pretty much the same reaction to the red light brake lights in front of you.

Is this a possible or potential passenger reaction, or is it just about the driver?

FWIW, experience has also taught me that there is considerable variation in what the appearance of brake lights on the vehicle ahead of me truly means (anywhere from "this stop absolutely means business" to "I don't know what else to do with my right foot at the moment" and everything in between). So even that is something that probably should be taken in context and in conjunction with other observations of the situation of the moment. I do understand that not everybody can do that equally well, some perhaps not at all. Just from knowing myself, I don't think I'd appreciate the momentary distraction that a sudden HUD display would create.

It does happen from time to time that I need to modulate even some of the heaviest street braking in order to provide a little more room for the guy behind me. I'm not making this up; I will throw a glance in the mirror.


Norm

 

[HeavyMetalMonk]

I didn't mean a stopped car near a guardrail because what it does in that situation had better be the obvious thing. What I do want to know is what happens when a damaged guardrail reflects back a strong enough signal to look like a stopped car.



Perhaps you haven't experienced improper or unreasonably conservative activities by any of these things. I have. What you may prefer to tag with 'Luddite' is skepticism based on experience from here.



I don't even use regular CC. Ever, except on extremely rare occasion to see if it still works at all. My wife doesn't use it either. Not doing so may be helping us stay connected to the matter of driving (as opposed to staying connected to anything and everything else).



Is this a possible or potential passenger reaction, or is it just about the driver?

FWIW, experience has also taught me that there is considerable variation in what the appearance of brake lights on the vehicle ahead of me truly means. So even that is something that probably should be taken in context and in conjunction with other observations of the situation of the moment. I do understand that not everybody can do that equally well, some perhaps not at all. Just from knowing myself, I don't think I'd appreciate the momentary distraction that a sudden HUD display would create.

It does happen from time to time that I need to modulate even some of the heaviest street braking in order to provide a little more room for the guy behind me. I'm not making this up; I will throw a glance in the mirror.


Norm

Why in the world would a broken guard rail do anything different than any other item on the side of the road? I drove through miles of construction over the last few days with broken dividers, equipment, garbage, random parts laying on the side of the road without even a hiccup from the S&S system.

If you don't even use CC at all why are even complaining about an improved system? I use CC all the time, and now even more with the ACC. If you don't even use the basic version why are you so against an improved one?


Ok, I think you don't understand how the automated braking works. It only throws up the HUD when you have to brake HARD. If you were braking manually you would be close to dynamiting the brakes. It ONLY uses the HUD if your foot is NOT on the brake pedal AT ALL and you are screaming up on the guy in front of you. At that point fuck passenger reactions, you're close to getting in a wreck. (BTW, as far as I can tell passengers can't see the HUD anyway, and even if they could I think the reaction after avoiding a wreck would be "cool").
Note that this system is TOTALLY different that the gentle slow down done by the ACC.

Last of all, when you're braking on the freeway who doesn't check their rear view mirror? That's pretty much freeway driving 101, it's not hard or uncommon.
Understanding that brake lights have various meaning depending on the situation isn't exactly ground breaking news.

 

[gamecoc430]

HeavyMetalMonk you are exactly correct in your statements above.

 

[Norm Peterson]

If you don't even use CC at all why are even complaining about an improved system? I use CC all the time, and now even more with the ACC. If you don't even use the basic version why are you so against an improved one?

Because as you come to rely more on it, you gradually teach yourself to get away with being less capable. You aren't "staying as current", which ought to mean something in your industry, but carries over to things as basic as your skill at extreme braking. Trust me on that last.

Ok, I think you don't understand how the automated braking works. It only throws up the HUD when you have to brake HARD. If you were braking manually you would be close to dynamiting the brakes. It ONLY uses the HUD if your foot is NOT on the brake pedal AT ALL and you are screaming up on the guy in front of you. At that point fuck passenger reactions, you're close to getting in a wreck. (BTW, as far as I can tell passengers can't see the HUD anyway, and even if they could I think the reaction after avoiding a wreck would be "cool").

Neither of us knows how hard the braking would have to be (is it 0.8g? 0.5g where insurance considers the beginning of "extreme braking" for usage-based rating? Less than that?). If it's going to trip at 0.45g and my passenger can see it, there probably will be times where they'd be needlessly reacting (I'm not going to attempt a scenario for this just yet).

Note that this system is TOTALLY different that the gentle slow down done by the ACC.

Different, but still related. Don't forget that the ABS they're piggybacked on top of still doesn't get everything right.

Last of all, when you're braking on the freeway who doesn't check their rear view mirror? That's pretty much freeway driving 101, it's not hard or uncommon.

I'm talking about any and all braking.

Understanding that brake lights have various meaning depending on the situation isn't exactly ground breaking news.

Agreed, it shouldn't be. But it's nowhere near the same among individuals, so with that in mind where do you set the threshhold for a HUD warning?


Norm

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