Hood Corrosion Nightmare

[Tomster]

I am calm lol.

What brand of PPF did you have installed?

Xpel ultimate

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[dsblk93gt]

My 2011 GT500 had multiple panels repainted the oem Race Red and it all matched perfect. The hood, bumper cover and right rear 1/4. I just got a Cervini hood for my 2015 GT due to knot wanting to deal with aluminum.

 

[nustang]

when the dealer says they dont know what paint ford uses ....
- this is a bodyshop tactic to instill doubt in the customer they are responsible to match
- colorimeters these days are really a great assett, and can allow for sun-fading of surrounding paint
- they have a responsibility to match.
- metallics need to be applied by someone with training to match the 'nap' of the flakes to the cars. if a solid color ... this is not an issue

shops have a list of excuses and use FUD - fear uncertainty and doubt to sway you.
Your are within your right to expect a professional result

Id stop stressing and:

- go elsewhere
- maybe a carbon fiber hood or a wrap?
- applique that covers the hood edges, and breaks the comparison point where hood compares to fender. Would never pickup on a slight mismatch

couple thoughts anyway

 

[falcongtho3]

At least ford is doing something for you on this. MY Boss 302 has developed blisters under the paint on the leading edge of the hood, and I am on my own. The stripe kit costs nearly what the hood casts, not including paint or installation.

 

[Jdown]

You all know how I love my car and speak highly of it as far as putting a lot of miles on it and how durable it has been since day 1. Car has been bullet proof for me since day 1/mile 2 all the way till 70,000 miles. Total cost of repairs I have paid for this car out of my pocket has been $250 or less.

That being said, it seems like my luck with the car has run out. I have hit the dreaded hood rust issue. Yes the warranty covers the repair but no one tells you what's involved in the repair. I was informed at first that I would receive a brand new hood in factory/OEM condition with matching color/paint material/thickness. In other words, I drop my car off and pick it up in same condition minus the rust.

Well 2+ months later, after a brand new hood that has been thrown out and a second new hood ordered, the body shop isnt able to match the color (race red). Its coming out either with too much orange or too less of orange. They are now saying there is no way to match this color and they dont know what to do. It is such a massive pain in the ass that I would argue I would prefer an engine failing due to oil consumption or worse than to deal with this. Because this is a mess and there is no easy way out whereas engine replacement, as painful as it might be, makes the car as whole/back to normal.

The service manager and service people have been very nice/helpful overall but I think even they werent aware of some of the finer details such as:

- Body panels that arrive from the factory come unpainted.
- They come covered with a special anti corrosion coating (they are all black) and that you only have 1 shot at painting these panels. You cannot paint them, screw up, and strip the paint (if you do, with the stripping of the paint comes off the anti corrosion coating - and more rust potential).
- You cannot paint a panel over and over to match the paint and keep the strength/integrity of the paint. In other words, paint material sticks best to a primer and it doesnt adhere to another layer of paint. By painting a panel repeatedly, yes you may be able to get close to the color desired but you will sacrifice the strength of the paint and also open a can of worms in the future if you need to repair the panel again (say a rock hits), good luck dealing with a panel that has layers of different paint on it.

My paint meter has read almost 340 vs (140 all around rest of the car) on the first hood they tried to match before I refused to go further and they bought a second hood. Now they are trying to match the color using paint samples and tried 2 different brands of paints with no avail.

I have involved Ford with a case number. I just dont know what else to do. I love this car, but doing some research online on this hood issue - it looks like it is not a matter of if but when this happens. It is widespread on explorers, F150s, mustangs and it is a massive headache.

The shop is 100% correct that its hard to match color without blending. I found out on my '19 magnetic grey j7 color. There was 15 different tints available for this color. Used 2 different spectrum analyzers to try to narrow it down. Even tried different paint companies to see if there was less options. In the end had to blend bumper cover tops of fenders windshield pillars and into doors to make it right. Its total b.s that they cant repaint parts after it doesn't match. Yes stripping and starting over sucks but there is ways to redo properly. I have pictures posted of my experiences if you want to look

 

[526 HRSE]

In order to match paint, you have to start with the same base paint. But trying to match paint on a car that has 70k miles on it.....and did the car have PPF on it?

Yes, you can tell when a car has PPF on it, not sure how anyone can't

 

[Zombo]

At least ford is doing something for you on this. MY Boss 302 has developed blisters under the paint on the leading edge of the hood, and I am on my own. The stripe kit costs nearly what the hood casts, not including paint or installation.

If your Boss has an aluminum hood, it is covered under the TSB.

 

[UnhandledException]

I went to check the paint today and it finally looks good. They apply the vinyl stripe Friday and I will pick it up Tuesday. It will be 10 1/2 weeks since the day I dropped it off.

I will never buy Ford again. I am right now in a loaner that is not safe to drive (brakes dont work properly and car wobbles like crazy at 60 mph). Dealership took it in, balanced all tires and cut the rotors and changed the pads. They give the loaner back (and what a hassle this was, I am oversimplifying it). And can you believe it, they made it worse. And I no longer have the energy to fight with these people. Every visit/email/phone call has been difficult/blood pressure increasing events.

Yes, this car has been good to me. It has been reliable mechanically. I have beautiful memories in it in 70,000 miles. But this 1 experience has crapped all over it and I will probably not walk into Ford for anything other than service work. There is that saying and its true, you get what you pay for. Everyone says how these cars and corvettes are the bang for the buck but my god what a shortsighted thinking is that. That is not how you get treated in BMW or Porsche. No red carpet treatment but people are cordial, respectful, and they treat you well.

If you dont pay people well, overload them with work, what are they supposed to do? This is at all not the staff’s fault. They probably earn so little and work so hard (those guys are in 7 am till 6pm everyday) and what a difficult environment it is for them to be successful and progress in their career. But as a customer, its the worst experience I have had. I think Bob’s discount furniture is a better company overall.

I would sell this car in a heartbeat if I didnt have these memories and it didnt have the sentimental value it does for my family.

 

[Tank]

I went to check the paint today and it finally looks good. They apply the vinyl stripe Friday and I will pick it up Tuesday. It will be 10 1/2 weeks since the day I dropped it off.

I will never buy Ford again. I am right now in a loaner that is not safe to drive (brakes dont work properly and car wobbles like crazy at 60 mph). Dealership took it in, balanced all tires and cut the rotors and changed the pads. They give the loaner back (and what a hassle this was, I am oversimplifying it). And can you believe it, they made it worse. And I no longer have the energy to fight with these people. Every visit/email/phone call has been difficult/blood pressure increasing events.

Yes, this car has been good to me. It has been reliable mechanically. I have beautiful memories in it in 70,000 miles. But this 1 experience has crapped all over it and I will probably not walk into Ford for anything other than service work. There is that saying and its true, you get what you pay for. Everyone says how these cars and corvettes are the bang for the buck but my god what a shortsighted thinking is that. That is not how you get treated in BMW or Porsche. No red carpet treatment but people are cordial, respectful, and they treat you well.

If you dont pay people well, overload them with work, what are they supposed to do? This is at all not the staff’s fault. They probably earn so little and work so hard (those guys are in 7 am till 6pm everyday) and what a difficult environment it is for them to be successful and progress in their career. But as a customer, its the worst experience I have had. I think Bob’s discount furniture is a better company overall.

I would sell this car in a heartbeat if I didnt have these memories and it didnt have the sentimental value it does for my family.

Glad the hood came out to your satisfaction and that your months long ordeal is coming to a close.

I understand 100% about how you feel about Ford and I hope your experiences with other manufacturers hold true in the future. I think this pandemic has been a game changer for every aspect of everything.

Beware of sentimentality about cars- could be a slippery slope for further disgruntlement.

Thanks for the update and good luck with it all

 

[UnhandledException]

Glad the hood came out to your satisfaction and that your months long ordeal is coming to a close.

I understand 100% about how you feel about Ford and I hope your experiences with other manufacturers hold true in the future. I think this pandemic has been a game changer for every aspect of everything.

Beware of sentimentality about cars- could be a slippery slope for further disgruntlement.

Thanks for the update and good luck with it all

I know it can be slippery slope but I just cannot let it go. I will pay $3k for extended warranty that should cover me for another 5 years/75k miles. Should any major component fail, it will pay for it. If by 150,000 miles car is still alive then I am less likely to experience major failure beyond that.

 

[UnhandledException]

Also this entire experience without our only daily driver initiated a series of conversations/steps we as a family have had. As a result, today is the day I joined other normal dads who drive normal cars. Put a deposit down on a 2022 GLE 450. GT350 is the most special of all of my cars and I will never look at it differently. But I think time has come to have a truly practical car (and I dont ever want to deal with a loaner if the car needs to go in service again).

 

[DaveB]

You all know how I love my car and speak highly of it as far as putting a lot of miles on it and how durable it has been since day 1. Car has been bullet proof for me since day 1/mile 2 all the way till 70,000 miles. Total cost of repairs I have paid for this car out of my pocket has been $250 or less.

That being said, it seems like my luck with the car has run out. I have hit the dreaded hood rust issue. Yes the warranty covers the repair but no one tells you what's involved in the repair. I was informed at first that I would receive a brand new hood in factory/OEM condition with matching color/paint material/thickness. In other words, I drop my car off and pick it up in same condition minus the rust.

Well 2+ months later, after a brand new hood that has been thrown out and a second new hood ordered, the body shop isnt able to match the color (race red). Its coming out either with too much orange or too less of orange. They are now saying there is no way to match this color and they dont know what to do. It is such a massive pain in the ass that I would argue I would prefer an engine failing due to oil consumption or worse than to deal with this. Because this is a mess and there is no easy way out whereas engine replacement, as painful as it might be, makes the car as whole/back to normal.

The service manager and service people have been very nice/helpful overall but I think even they werent aware of some of the finer details such as:

- Body panels that arrive from the factory come unpainted.
- They come covered with a special anti corrosion coating (they are all black) and that you only have 1 shot at painting these panels. You cannot paint them, screw up, and strip the paint (if you do, with the stripping of the paint comes off the anti corrosion coating - and more rust potential).
- You cannot paint a panel over and over to match the paint and keep the strength/integrity of the paint. In other words, paint material sticks best to a primer and it doesnt adhere to another layer of paint. By painting a panel repeatedly, yes you may be able to get close to the color desired but you will sacrifice the strength of the paint and also open a can of worms in the future if you need to repair the panel again (say a rock hits), good luck dealing with a panel that has layers of different paint on it.

My paint meter has read almost 340 vs (140 all around rest of the car) on the first hood they tried to match before I refused to go further and they bought a second hood. Now they are trying to match the color using paint samples and tried 2 different brands of paints with no avail.

I have involved Ford with a case number. I just dont know what else to do. I love this car, but doing some research online on this hood issue - it looks like it is not a matter of if but when this happens. It is widespread on explorers, F150s, mustangs and it is a massive headache.

The black is a corrosion barrier for storage and transportation. You remove it when you prep for paint!! It is not a primer layer!

 

[DaveB]

When I approached Ford, I very carefully laid out my expectations and had the service manager triple check (literally on 3 different occasions : 1) First time I dropped by to ask about the process 2) Then when making the appointment and 3) The day I dropped off the GT350) my expectations vs reality with the collusion center owner and they were:

1) The end result would be identical to a hood being painted in the assembly line as far as the quantity of paint (i.e. paint depth gauge would read to an acceptable margin of difference vs rest of the car), type of paint (brand), and the appearance (so no tinting)

2) There would be no blending (I am already eating the cost of redoing the PPF on the hood, $750. The cost of redoing the fenders and bumper for PPF would be another $1500, which Ford doesnt cover. Plus I again dont want overspray on any other panels).

While I dont know personally about Auto paint, I do have a family member who was in the auto paint industry (as in as part of manufacturing process), specifically in BASF/Glasurit and I have learned a great deal from him during this journey. They definitely can match the paint to a very close match, perhaps not identical, but the way my car looked with the first paint hood was merely a red car with an orange hood. It was that bad.

I have also explained to them (and in fact, proven to them on the car) that having PPF does not change the color. I have multiple areas of my car where PPF is partially on and none of the body shop personnel could argue with me about PPF not having a difference in appearance. You cant tell its there.

I think part of the problem (and why they are hesitant to use the camera) is they may have a problem with their camera system/underlying paint brand they are using.

They have also been very hush hush with me about the details of what they have done. In the first hood they ruined, against my explicit instructions, they have repeatedly painted over the hood multiple times. When I saw the orange hood and told them this is unacceptable and they agreed so, one of the things we discussed was stripping the incorrect paint off and trying again (but at the time I didnt know anything about cataphoresis primer that you would also go away that comes with the panel). They assured me repeatedly that they wouldnt paint over. Little did they know that I would arrive the next time with a depth gauge and point out there is almost 3 times of the depth measured on the hood vs rest of the car. That was 2-3 weeks ago. Fast forward to today, they let it slip (on their own), that they had done 12 sprays on the first hood to try to match the color.

I have had paint work done in other cars I have owned (3 occassions, all BMWs) and in every one of these times, specific panel was painted, no blending took place, and car appeared as new. I know for a fact that the collusion centers BMW dealerships used were factory certified, in that they only did BMWs, they had equipment that came from Germany (including the ovens, including the paint, and including spray guns that are half auto). So I know for a fact that you can paint panels to OEM spec.

A similar thing happens when Euro cars get off the ship in the port and they arrive with damage. They have whats called VPC (Vehicle Processing Centers) that have the same equipment and can paint body panels without any blending etc. Do you think people would buy a $200,000 Porsche Turbo (or a $60,000 cayman, they all go through the same VPC) with overspray to blend the paint due to a scratch in transit? Or do you think Porsche would send a car like that back because they are unable to paint a specific panel back to spec?

When I bought my GT3RS CPO, I had pictures of every single panel (literally) of paint depth gauge readings as part of the CPO booklet.

Yes Porsche (BMW) vs Porsche you may say, but I'll say it can be done and I'm sure there are Ford dealers out there with the right body shops subcontracted that know what they are doing. I doubt this is "Ford certified".

No matter how careful you are and think about various angles, sometimes it just doesnt work out. Also somethings are learned with experience (the hard way). The lesson to be learned here is no matter how many times you ask the service to check, I should have done my own due diligence about the particular body shop being Ford certified or not (they do every kind of car there from Mazdas to Toyotas to Fords).

layer! Not comparing apples to apples. Brand new car with no miles and no time in the sun compared to a car with 70,000 miles on it. To do it properly, you need to blend on adjacent panels...otherwise it will never match. Granted using the paint code should get them pretty damn close.

 

[1958cyclist]

You all know how I love my car and speak highly of it as far as putting a lot of miles on it and how durable it has been since day 1. Car has been bullet proof for me since day 1/mile 2 all the way till 70,000 miles. Total cost of repairs I have paid for this car out of my pocket has been $250 or less.

That being said, it seems like my luck with the car has run out. I have hit the dreaded hood rust issue. Yes the warranty covers the repair but no one tells you what's involved in the repair. I was informed at first that I would receive a brand new hood in factory/OEM condition with matching color/paint material/thickness. In other words, I drop my car off and pick it up in same condition minus the rust.

Well 2+ months later, after a brand new hood that has been thrown out and a second new hood ordered, the body shop isnt able to match the color (race red). Its coming out either with too much orange or too less of orange. They are now saying there is no way to match this color and they dont know what to do. It is such a massive pain in the ass that I would argue I would prefer an engine failing due to oil consumption or worse than to deal with this. Because this is a mess and there is no easy way out whereas engine replacement, as painful as it might be, makes the car as whole/back to normal.

The service manager and service people have been very nice/helpful overall but I think even they werent aware of some of the finer details such as:

- Body panels that arrive from the factory come unpainted.
- They come covered with a special anti corrosion coating (they are all black) and that you only have 1 shot at painting these panels. You cannot paint them, screw up, and strip the paint (if you do, with the stripping of the paint comes off the anti corrosion coating - and more rust potential).
- You cannot paint a panel over and over to match the paint and keep the strength/integrity of the paint. In other words, paint material sticks best to a primer and it doesnt adhere to another layer of paint. By painting a panel repeatedly, yes you may be able to get close to the color desired but you will sacrifice the strength of the paint and also open a can of worms in the future if you need to repair the panel again (say a rock hits), good luck dealing with a panel that has layers of different paint on it.

My paint meter has read almost 340 vs (140 all around rest of the car) on the first hood they tried to match before I refused to go further and they bought a second hood. Now they are trying to match the color using paint samples and tried 2 different brands of paints with no avail.

I have involved Ford with a case number. I just dont know what else to do. I love this car, but doing some research online on this hood issue - it looks like it is not a matter of if but when this happens. It is widespread on explorers, F150s, mustangs and it is a massive headache.

I can say that the paint matching can be a challenge. My dad accidently tapped another car hard enough to have to replace the front bumper, etc. My high school friend who has a thriving body and paint business was able to do a pretty good job matching the Race Red paint on mine. Dave said that it was a challenge and took a lot of time and care, but they nailed it. So, it can be done. It sounds like your current shop is trying really hard and have been very accommodating, but it may be time to move on?

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