Hill start assist

[Norm Peterson]

I can understand how annoying it must be for all you guys to have a car that doesn't roll back on a hill.

You don't understand the annoyance at all.

While I can see the advantage in it for a rank novice to MT driving, it's kind of insulting once you've mastered the clutch (which really isn't all that difficult). Kind of like going back to when you needed training wheels on that shiny new 2-wheeler that was waiting under the Christmas tree for you.

I'm betting that HSA would at least occasionally piss off my oldest granddaughter, who's been driving stick since her permit days a couple of years ago and currently owns a 1995 model car. She's never driven a HSA car, never needed to.

haha, I don't understand it either. All it does is keep the car from rolling backwards. It won't make you stall out, it won't keep you from going forward, it doesn't hurt anything and using it saves wear and tear on your clutch. It's a nice little feature.

It also forces you to start up differently than you would in its absence. And differently than you need to on level roads.

And it's 'nice' only as long as you can turn it off, most preferably with 'off' being the default setting as it is in my wife's Subie (see sig). Not all car HSA systems are that nice, and experienced MT drivers do occasionally stall when HSA gets in the way badly enough. Take the blinders off for a moment to look beyond the world of Mustang forums and hope that what you might find elsewhere doesn't find its way to cars with blue oval badging.


Jonrezz - they aren't as close as it appears. And if you do roll back an inch or two, they just might get the message and leave a bit more room the next time traffic stops (I've been known to intentionally allow a little backward rolling for this very reason - if they think I'm a rank newbie driver, all the better).


Norm

Sponsored

 

[stevnoof]

He said insulting lol old salt dog

 

[millhouse]

You don't understand the annoyance at all.

While I can see the advantage in it for a rank novice to MT driving, it's kind of insulting once you've mastered the clutch (which really isn't all that difficult). Kind of like going back to when you needed training wheels on that shiny new 2-wheeler that was waiting under the Christmas tree for you.

I'm betting that HSA would at least occasionally piss off my oldest granddaughter, who's been driving stick since her permit days a couple of years ago and currently owns a 1995 model car. She's never driven a HSA car, never needed to.



It also forces you to start up differently than you would in its absence. And differently than you need to on level roads.

And it's 'nice' only as long as you can turn it off, most preferably with 'off' being the default setting as it is in my wife's Subie (see sig). Not all car HSA systems are that nice, and experienced MT drivers do occasionally stall when HSA gets in the way badly enough. Take the blinders off for a moment to look beyond the world of Mustang forums and hope that what you might find elsewhere doesn't find its way to cars with blue oval badging.


Jonrezz - they aren't as close as it appears. And if you do roll back an inch or two, they just might get the message and leave a bit more room the next time traffic stops (I've been known to intentionally allow a little backward rolling for this very reason - if they think I'm a rank newbie driver, all the better).


Norm

I've never "needed" ABS, power steering or traction control either...but I sure do enjoy the benefits.

I've been driving a manual transmission vehicle in one form or another for over 20 years and enjoy the benefits of HSA. It does take some getting used to however.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I've never "needed" ABS, power steering or traction control either...but I sure do enjoy the benefits.

I've been driving a manual transmission vehicle in one form or another for over 20 years and enjoy the benefits of HSA. It does take some getting used to however.

I'm confused.

If you haven't needed HSA for over 20 years, why would changing from whatever clutch-work you have obviously found works for you, over to a different way that somebody else thinks you should use instead, be at all enjoyable?


To your arguments of distraction from the topic, PS is the only one that I appreciate, and only because of the weight and caster settings of these cars. I can reliably brake at nearly 1g deceleration without getting into the ABS and have the datalogs to prove it. The TC (on my car, anyway) is utterly worthless for anything more than making some dashboard light blink, and it might work the rear brakes if I had a Cars & Coffee show-off nature (I don't). But at least those two stay out of my way.


Norm

 

[millhouse]

I'm confused.

If you haven't needed HSA for over 20 years, why would changing from whatever clutch-work you have obviously found works for you, over to a different way that somebody else thinks you should use instead, be at all enjoyable?

That's an easy one...they made a system improvement that I choose to take advantage of. I used to look words up in the dictionary for spelling purposes, but technology takes that burden off me. It doesn't make me a better speller, but it does make me more efficient.

To your arguments of distraction from the topic, PS is the only one that I appreciate, and only because of the weight and caster settings of these cars. I can reliably brake at nearly 1g deceleration without getting into the ABS and have the datalogs to prove it. The TC (on my car, anyway) is utterly worthless for anything more than making some dashboard light blink, and it might work the rear brakes if I had a Cars & Coffee show-off nature (I don't). But at least those two stay out of my way.


Norm

My arguments are in no way a topic distraction, but rather a means to symbolize said argument.

Have fun trying to pull 1G braking on freshly wet roads when some asshat runs a red light on you. I'm much more comfortable knowing all the technology new cars allow make my driving experience safer.

You obviously feel otherwise, I'll stop the rhetoric as my intentions are not to change your mind, but rather argue my position.

Enjoy

Dan

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, it's about personal choice. Or at least it should be (Chevy doesn't think so on this matter, and the only way around it involves a rather unofficial DIY mod).

To symbolize my point rather than change your mind, I'm actively trying to prevent my computer from being "upgraded" to Windows 10. Don't want to have to learn a different way when the way I've got now works just fine.

Next time I run a wet track day session I'll have the datalogging set up and will be able to tell you what I can do under that condition. I don't get the ABS involved then either. Just so you know, even ABS (arguably the most mature of these technologies) does not always get it right. Trust me on this.


Norm

 

[Rig Dawg]

All you young guys have never seen Cheers?
You should know better than to debate Norm on his barstool!

 

[Colleton]

I'm confused.

If you haven't needed HSA for over 20 years, why would changing from whatever clutch-work you have obviously found works for you, over to a different way that somebody else thinks you should use instead, be at all enjoyable?

Because it works. It's unobtrusive and easy to use.

I've been driving since 1980, mostly manuals. I didn't have to change anything other than no longer having to worry about rolling backwards on a hill. This is why I don't understand people that freak out over this feature.

Whatever, it's all personal choice.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Because it works. It's unobtrusive and easy to use.

I've been driving since 1980, mostly manuals. I didn't have to change anything other than no longer having to worry about rolling backwards on a hill. This is why I don't understand people that freak out over this feature.

Whatever, it's all personal choice.

It's fortunate that Ford gives you the choice. Not all mfrs do, and I'm hoping that Ford and a few other mfrs will continue to provide this choice. That gives you your preference and me, mine.

FWIW, not all systems are unobtrusive, or at least not unobtrusive for all drivers. I'm actually happy that it doesn't seem to have gotten in your way, even while being sure that it would give me trouble at least occasionally (mostly because I tend to use as little throttle as I can get away with when pulling away from a stop, sometimes none at all until I'm actually rolling with the clutch fully engaged).

Maybe it's a more philosophical thing. Somebody somewhere has decided that developing good clutch skills under a wide variety of conditions no longer has value, and that those of us who may already possess that skill should be coaxed away from using/maintaining it. It's somewhat at odds with the frequently posted argument of "greater involvement when driving a MT car", to turn right around and hand some of that involvement over to automation.


Norm

 

[PonyGrrrl]

I turned it off after the first time it engaged, it held the brakes too hard for my liking. I live in flatter than flat SoFlo and when I had my EcoBoost and drove to NY last summer the first time it engaged it caused me to stall with a few cars behind me trying to pull out from a shopping center. I had to stomp on the throttle to get it to disengage. In 30 years of driving manuals I have never had an issue with rolling backwards on steep hills growing up in NY. It's a great feature for anyone learning to drive a manual but I don't feel the need for it myself. To me the handbrake works great when starting on a steep incline but I never needed to use it much on a hill.

 

[Toofarfromjune]

I live in the land of hills, still found the hill start assist to be more trouble than anything.

If you suck at driving manual, the type who rev the shit out of it and always slip the clutch forever, and you had zero intentions of learning how to properly drive the car, it could be helpful.

If you know how to drive manual properly with no more than what's needed on throttle with minimal clutch slippage before engagement, it will do nothing other than make you stall.

If I left my hill start asist on, there's no way I was going to make this clutch last nearly 200k miles like my last.

Sponsored