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Help me understand E85

Wookie107

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How much HP difference between a flex tune running e85 and a dedicated e85 tune? Where does the difference lie? In the midrange?
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AZ18yote

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How much HP difference between a flex tune running e85 and a dedicated e85 tune? Where does the difference lie? In the midrange?
Peak whp will be the same. Dedicated though ramps up timing faster so a dedicated tune will have a stronger lower end.
 

Wookie107

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Peak whp will be the same. Dedicated though ramps up timing faster so a dedicated tune will have a stronger lower end.
Are we talking single digit torque differences, or noticeable torque numbers? Improving that initial grunt is always a plus with the 5.0.
 

AZ18yote

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Are we talking single digit torque differences, or noticeable torque numbers? Improving that initial grunt is always a plus with the 5.0.
The power just comes on earlier because timing is earlier. If you look at the curve you will see a bit more linear on flex vs steeper on dedicated. I still run flex full time myself for convenience due to availability in Phoenix and much of it only being e54 as a bit of earlier timing doesn't outweigh the convenience factor of not swapping between tunes when changing fuels personally. If i fill up on tested e90 on a strip day that could be the exception making it worth swapping tunes.
 

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Are we talking single digit torque differences, or noticeable torque numbers? Improving that initial grunt is always a plus with the 5.0.
The flex tune allows the computer and the wideband to gradually find the timing that's happy with the knock sensors. The dedicated race tune assumes you have high quality E85 in the tank and doesn't ask, it forces the timing down it's throat. As he said, peak for peak it's usually within the typical error/confidence of a dyno, but on the lower end, the race tune will seem a little more sporty/responsive. You can always flash back to the flex tune, but you shouldn't flash the dedicated race tune unless you've verified it's high content E85. It's no longer asking the knock sensors, it's telling the computer what it knows to be safe timing.
 

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RoGCobraRV

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So what do you all do when you simply want to go from 93 to E85 and not flex in between. Obviously you get the tank as low as possible on 93,but after you fill up with E and flash it is there anything that specifically needs to be done like idle a bit then take it easy for a tank etc. Do you have to have a flex tune in between or can you simply switch back and forth?
 

Angrey

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So what do you all do when you simply want to go from 93 to E85 and not flex in between. Obviously you get the tank as low as possible on 93,but after you fill up with E and flash it is there anything that specifically needs to be done like idle a bit then take it easy for a tank etc. Do you have to have a flex tune in between or can you simply switch back and forth?
If you're going direct from gasoline to E85 race tune, you're going to have to ensure you're not diluting the E85 with remnant 93. You can either idle the car all the way until it dies which is a pain in the ass. You can buy the module from VMP that you connect at your fuel rail and it pumps the fuel out. In either of those cases, I'd still take it very gingerly on that first tank of E85 as there's still quite a bit of fuel in the bottom of both saddles. You could remove the fuel hats and siphon out from the top openings (it's a good time to wipe out the tank and get any debris or residue out).

I'd say just run it all the way to empty, fill up with E85 and then take it very easy until that tank is all the way depleted, fill up with quality E and then send it (after verifying it's good content/quality of course).
 

Kennysum1

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For what it's worth I switched over my Quadraflio from 93 to E85 just by getting it super super low and adding 5 gallons of E85.

Then drove it on the dedicated E85 tune to the store the fill up. But drove it like I was 100 years old and blind.

After the fill up I still went pretty easy on the first tank. Then let her rip.
 

AZ18yote

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So what do you all do when you simply want to go from 93 to E85 and not flex in between. Obviously you get the tank as low as possible on 93,but after you fill up with E and flash it is there anything that specifically needs to be done like idle a bit then take it easy for a tank etc. Do you have to have a flex tune in between or can you simply switch back and forth?
The flex is meant to avoid switching back and forth. If wanting to go dedicated, run the tank near as empty as possible, closest to 0 miles left the better. Test the e to confirm it's high enough quality, fill up and allow a before going wot.
 

Magnetic Stang

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So what do you all do when you simply want to go from 93 to E85 and not flex in between. Obviously you get the tank as low as possible on 93,but after you fill up with E and flash it is there anything that specifically needs to be done like idle a bit then take it easy for a tank etc. Do you have to have a flex tune in between or can you simply switch back and forth?
You could but it would be a hassle. You'd have to run the 93 down to fumes before filling up with E85 and make sure that fuel is through the system before you get on it. The closest station for me always runs between 74 and 77% ethanol. A couple gallons of 93 still in the tank puts me under E70 (between 65-68%) which isn't good enough. If it was E80 or up it would probably be good enough. Flashing a tune doesn't take long at all. Only a couple of minutes and another few minutes of driving for the car to adjust. You could even stay on the flex tune and run whatever fuel you want and go to the E85 tune when you want the extra benefit. No reason to go between 3 different tunes. IMO if you're not racing no reason not to use a flex fuel tune unless you have E85 on every corner. You'd be able to tell a big difference in power on a flex tune and running high E content.
 

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K4fxd

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Dedicated E85 tunes really should run drum bought fuel. If you are using pump fuel go with a flex tune.
 

Cory S

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Dedicated E85 tunes really should run drum bought fuel.
At least it definitely should be tested at the the pump before consumption yes. If I'm testing it over 70%, it dinner time. On my dedicated "E85" calibration, my trims are only removing 6% fueling @ 70%. I've tried as low as around a 67% blend, and indicators in the logs were still well within the operating windows. I'm also testing and logging 90% of the time the car is running.
 

K4fxd

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On my dedicated "E85" calibration, my trims are only removing 6% fueling @ 70%. I've tried as low as around a 67% blend, and indicators in the logs were still well within the operating windows.
Right, but if running a flex tune you only have to fuel up and go.

I'm too lazy to test each tank and if I happen to need fuel and there are no E85 pumps available I don't have to flash a tune.
 
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RoGCobraRV

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All the big name tuners offer all 3 tunes on a N/A?
 

AZ18yote

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