GT350 Shipping weight

[Blk2015GT]

The coyote was only 10hp less on 87 that it was on 91. Is it a ticking time bomb that is knocking all the time with the ecm pulling timing to not grenade? Not even close.

Less actually, about 1% which is 4.35hp technically. The coyote can run just fine on 87.

I am sure Ford thought up that not everyone has 93 in all areas and made sure 91 was ok too.

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[cjgt350]

That is really not true, the ecm has a long list of sensors it reads from and can predict when conditions are ripe for detonation based on IATs, A/F ratio (most new cars now have precat widebands), incoming mass flow, oil/coolant temps, etc.

This is what I was referencing that is utilized in the '11+ GT500. It does a great job saving the engine from going boom. Curious what tricks the tuners will have up their sleeve for the VooDoo.

 

[Cruzinaround]

That is really not true, the ecm has a long list of sensors it reads from and can predict when conditions are ripe for detonation based on IATs, A/F ratio (most new cars now have precat widebands), incoming mass flow, oil/coolant temps, etc.

Will there be a slight performance decrease on 91? yes of course, I am guessing 1-2% less peak power. The coyote was only 10hp less on 87 that it was on 91. Is it a ticking time bomb that is knocking all the time with the ecm pulling timing to not grenade? Not even close.

Sensors are there to detect for pre-existing conditions. Then changes are made to timing and AF to compensate. None of which is adjusted until there are conditions existing that cause detonation in the first place.

The adjustments all happen after the fact. They may happen very quickly, but a problem has to exist before they compensate. No matter what.
The more sensors the more the ECU has to compute the longer it takes to compensate.

And the technology in car CPU's has not advanced as far and as fast as it has for say.... our laptops. By comparison the automotive ECU's are primative compared to your modern cell phone. And if there is something that causes a hiccup in the programming..... then yes you can grenade the vehicle. Which probably won't happen until our fellow enthusiasts start tweaking the ECU programming with mods that require it.

As is with current ECU's ....the switches are either on or off for those parameters to change. So yes.... it can be a potential when there is a glitch. Something that will not be a major hit to people who always run higher octane if any glitch should occur.

And

Electronics are one of if not the most convoluted and difficult of problems to troubleshoot even with modern analyzers available. Since most are generalized and not specific to any particular model of car. Error codes can also be generic with a broad range of possible root problems from simple to major.

Again more reason to avoid cars coming from the west coast in the used resale market. Its just the way it is. Even for those gotta have it now or gotta have no matter what... kind of peeps we share our planet with.

 

[Nataphen]

All this just reminds me of why I'll be converting mine to E85 once I get one.

 

[Spa2k]

Quick ... I'm about to go crazy in this pit of what if's, can't happens and overall negativity! Somebody please say something nice about this car!!!

 

[Nataphen]

It's sssssuper badass.

 

[Cruzinaround]

^under the right conditions...this car is going to handle like its on rails and destroy all others that step up to challenge it. Considering the kind of cars this one is elevated to compete with as far as handling..... as soon as it hits the twisties.... Depending on what the other car is.... it will definitely be a driver's race. The driver of this car however.... will always look cooler driving it.

 

[Nataphen]

In all seriousness though, people are worrying about the high compression like Ford hasn't thought this through. With VCT able to bleed off dynamic compression as needed, and extremely quick acting knock sensors, this car won't have any problems. Ford also designed this combustion chamber so well, that they said they could run MBT with 93 octane! That means that the difference in power from 91 to 93 probably won't even be noticeable. Maybe 5-10hp.

This isn't an LS1 trying to run 12:1 compression, it's a well designed and much more technologically advanced engine. 12:1 static compression doesn't mean much from engine to engine. If it's designed to be very efficient in fuel atomization and dispersion, which it is, it will run fine on whatever is the best fuel in your area. I'll make the switch to E85 mainly because it keeps the engine much cleaner and it smells better with a catless exhaust. 91 octane won't be a problem though. You guys just chill a little.

 

[65Terdlingua]

Sensors are there to detect for pre-existing conditions. Then changes are made to timing and AF to compensate. None of which is adjusted until there are conditions existing that cause detonation in the first place.

The adjustments all happen after the fact. They may happen very quickly, but a problem has to exist before they compensate. No matter what.
The more sensors the more the ECU has to compute the longer it takes to compensate.

And the technology in car CPU's has not advanced as far and as fast as it has for say.... our laptops. By comparison the automotive ECU's are primative compared to your modern cell phone. And if there is something that causes a hiccup in the programming..... then yes you can grenade the vehicle. Which probably won't happen until our fellow enthusiasts start tweaking the ECU programming with mods that require it.

As is with current ECU's ....the switches are either on or off for those parameters to change. So yes.... it can be a potential when there is a glitch. Something that will not be a major hit to people who always run higher octane if any glitch should occur.

And

Electronics are one of if not the most convoluted and difficult of problems to troubleshoot even with modern analyzers available. Since most are generalized and not specific to any particular model of car. Error codes can also be generic with a broad range of possible root problems from simple to major.

Again more reason to avoid cars coming from the west coast in the used resale market. Its just the way it is. Even for those gotta have it now or gotta have no matter what... kind of peeps we share our planet with.

The computers will constantly be looking at all of the inputs. MAF or Manifold pressure, IAT, Coolant temp, O2 sensors, Knock sensors etc. Yes, when the car sees severe detonation it will adjust accordingly, but it is also monitoring all the conditions to adjust fuel, cam and ignition timing. However, the knock sensors can be extremely sensitive, and don't think they won't be on this engine with such high compression ratio. They can pick up such small vibrations way before sever detonation begins and will adjust for that. It probably also has wide band O2 sensors, which are even more accurate at lower loads and RPM and can react faster to adjust short term fuel trims.

Besides that, at high loads or RPM, the computer will look away from the O2 sensors anyway and start looking at Volumetric Efficiency Tsbles because the O2 aren't seeing data fast enough. Again, it is still monitoring all of the other impute simultaneously, especially knock sensors, to keep detonation in check. How many coyote engines have really failed due to detonation with lower octane fuel?

 

[65Terdlingua]

In all seriousness though, people are worrying about the high compression like Ford hasn't thought this through. With VCT able to bleed off dynamic compression as needed, and extremely quick acting knock sensors, this car won't have any problems. Ford also designed this combustion chamber so well, that they said they could run MBT with 93 octane! That means that the difference in power from 91 to 93 probably won't even be noticeable. Maybe 5-10hp.

This isn't an LS1 trying to run 12:1 compression, it's a well designed and much more technologically advanced engine. 12:1 static compression doesn't mean much from engine to engine. If it's designed to be very efficient in fuel atomization and dispersion, which it is, it will run fine on whatever is the best fuel in your area. I'll make the switch to E85 mainly because it keeps the engine much cleaner and it smells better with a catless exhaust. 91 octane won't be a problem though. You guys just chill a little.

Not to mention you'll be making more power.

 

[Nataphen]

Probably not a noticeable amount though. That's what I'm trying to get across, this engine is very efficient.

 

[DrumReaper]

Don't know bout yall, but I can't wait. I'm watching all the Stangs with blue-taped front ends passing by on I-20 headed to Myrtle Beach. I'm getting the fever, and when I have a fever I need more cowbell!!!

 

[thePill]

Why does my open speculation cause such agony?

I was merely trying to justify why Ford charged $40 for fuel and if that indeed is included in the units shipping weight. I never seen a car shipped with $40 in fuel.

It's merely open speculation based on the R's shipping weight being 55lbs more.

Is options included?

Is fuel levels recorded and car weighed?

 

[krt22]

Why does my open speculation cause such agony?

No real agony, but there is some unwarranted worrisome folks for some reason. It looks like some of these folks might be wearing tin foil hats while seeking out 93 octance :lol:

 

[Cruzinaround]

The computers will constantly be looking at all of the inputs. .......

How many coyote engines have really failed due to detonation with lower octane fuel?

The answer to your question....

No one really knows. And if they do know... there is no governing body charting it in a registry of known detonation issues for your information. Simply because the aftermath can be attributed to so many variables. ECU mods are only a part of the overall equation.

Detonation however still has to exist for any of this to compensate. And again when problems do occur it's not necessarily determined to be a detonation problem simply because.....

There are so many variables involved that need to be ruled out before you can even come to that final conclusion.


Its how manufacturers can point the finger at mods being done and how mod manufacturers can point things back to OEM issues. Until someone decides to finally help you out. Most times as many of us who've modded our vehicles discover... The dealer's aren't going to touch it. And the mod shops always have a project on their hands to determine cause and effect after the fact.

In the end the ECU has to be tweaked. And therefore is the common link in the chain.

If the car is set to run ideally on higher octane.... that's where you should target. Anything else is retarded. Literally speaking. The motor is retarded as a result of all the countermeasures to prevent detonation.

It doesn't retard the motor so you can enjoy lower octane fuel and save a few pennies on each gallon. It retards the motor to avoid the damage that is associated with running lower octane fuel in your car. PERIOD.


If you still want to run it on the lower octane fuel then the first mod I would look at (other than the e85 conversion suggested)is a Methanol injection kit... formerly referred to a water injection kits.

They are triggered by the vacuum of the motor and will inject water or Methanol( marketed as many forms of rubbing alcohol) or Ethanol (marketed in many forms as gasoline additive commonly referred to as "DRY GAS") directly into the intake to boost the octane levels and eliminate ping detonation.

That would be the first mod I would look into in those areas where high octane fuel is not available.


Or buy 2 GT350's. You can keep the second one for spare parts.

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