GT350 Weight?

[wproctor411]

It's called Dragon Ball Z (or Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball GT). It was a really popular cartoon like 15 years ago.

I was just finishing college 15 years ago, beer, booze, and boobs.

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[908ssp]

So, what about speculating on cost? What are you going to say if a base GT350 is far less than $60k?

I'll admit I was wrong and my source got poor or at least early information. Ford seems to be subtracting content that was intended for the car maybe to lower the price. But all in all I still see no reason they should sell this for any less than the GT500; this has far more content and expenses.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I think there are two primary benefits with an FPC, the significance of which depend on what you want out of the car.

The first, and most significant IMO, is the reduction of counterweights on the crank shaft. This reduces rotational inertia, making the engine feel more responsive when throttle blips are required (for heel/toe shifting for example). This advantage is important to me, but maybe not to most.

The second benefit is the even exhaust pulses due to the change in firing order, which can improve airflow, freeing up some power. IMO, this is a minor factor because I am pretty happy with the power from the Boss 302 Roadrunner engine, and believe Ford would have been able to do a bit better with the increase in bore and other incremental improvements.

As far as DI is concerned, IMO that can help any engine, flat plane or not. The cooling effect and improved fuel control allow higher compression ratios and therefore more efficiency and power. Still, if you look at gasoline adds over the past 20 years, you'll see that the main talking point has been all the detergents that are intended in large part to keep the intake tract clean. So you loose that cleaning effect with DI, which can allow build-up in some situations. I have a VW GTI and haven't had issues, but some others have. I personally like DI overall, but am also fine without it.

I do think the different feel of the engine (low inertia, high revving), will make the car feel very racy, even when you aren't pushing it. And maybe it will help the weight on the front, by getting rid of some of the crankshaft weight.

It certainly won't hurt from a marketing perspective either.

Sorry for the off topic post.

-T

A very solid well thought out post T. Can't internet war with you on this one ;)

 

[Tim Hilliard]

Ok

added detail to my guess...
GT350 "base" vs GT base PP
-25lbs Aluminum rotor hats & cross-drilled offset slight increase in front rotor & large increase in rear rotor size
-0 lighter driveshaft cancels stronger half-shafts
-5 lighter rims offsets tires
-20lbs carbon radiator support
-20lbs Aluminum diff housing
-10lbs lighter crank (or more)
-10lbs lighter flywheel/clutch assembly (~47lbs to ~37lbs)
-10lbs lighter transmission
-45lbs sound deadening & NVH related parts deleted or changed
-5lbs lighter front suspension arms
-10lbs lighter exhaust (would be 25lbs but active valves add 10lbs & rear diffuser added 5lbs)
-50lbs misc (little stuff like 1lb engine cover...)
total: -200lbs or about 3,550lbs

Full tank 3550lbs
3/4 tank 3526lbs
1/2 tank 3502lbs
1/4 tank 3478lbs
Empty 3454lbs

full tank 16gal, gasoline ~6lbs/gal

it's only a guess

Man you guy's are worse than me with free time to figure this stuff out. I think the front structure is only worth a couple of pounds. If the wheels are forged or roll forms that can be 40 pounds, tires will be light as well. There is a gain on sprung weight, you are spot on with the brake mass, hat is much lighter, larger rotor with less meat saves a ton. It has big surface area with low mass.

Clutch and trans..not sure, flywheel offset by plates (?) I doubt a street car will have 8" which save ton of mass. Tremec's have always been and are kind of a load weight wise. Maybe this one is actually lighter than the GT trans :shrug:

 

[w3rkn]

less than the GT...


I think the point of the Shelby is balance and handling. Then again.. which version of the GT350 are we talking about..? I am sure the GTr will be lighter.

 

[w3rkn]

I think there are two primary benefits with an FPC, the significance of which depend on what you want out of the car.

The first, and most significant IMO, is the reduction of counterweights on the crank shaft. This reduces rotational inertia, making the engine feel more responsive when throttle blips are required (for heel/toe shifting for example). This advantage is important to me, but maybe not to most.

The second benefit is the even exhaust pulses due to the change in firing order, which can improve airflow, freeing up some power. IMO, this is a minor factor because I am pretty happy with the power from the Boss 302 Roadrunner engine, and believe Ford would have been able to do a bit better with the increase in bore and other incremental improvements.

As far as DI is concerned, IMO that can help any engine, flat plane or not. The cooling effect and improved fuel control allow higher compression ratios and therefore more efficiency and power. Still, if you look at gasoline adds over the past 20 years, you'll see that the main talking point has been all the detergents that are intended in large part to keep the intake tract clean. So you loose that cleaning effect with DI, which can allow build-up in some situations. I have a VW GTI and haven't had issues, but some others have. I personally like DI overall, but am also fine without it.

I do think the different feel of the engine (low inertia, high revving), will make the car feel very racy, even when you aren't pushing it. And maybe it will help the weight on the front, by getting rid of some of the crankshaft weight.

It certainly won't hurt from a marketing perspective either.


-T

Well said^.


This new Shelby is a very appealing and I think is going to be something quite special.

I want one in the worst way... the addition of magnetic suspension really entices me & will add some upscale value. Oh... and to ring the engine out threw some twisties...




But If I have to wait for a v6 bi-turbo for a 3,400lbs s550, I will. Something to go after the M2 with..

 

[thePill]

It will be difficult for the GT350 to be lighter than a GTPP. It might be a wash...

 

[Jimdohc]

Man you guy's are worse than me with free time to figure this stuff out. I think the front structure is only worth a couple of pounds. If the wheels are forged or roll forms that can be 40 pounds, tires will be light as well. There is a gain on sprung weight, you are spot on with the brake mass, hat is much lighter, larger rotor with less meat saves a ton. It has big surface area with low mass.

Clutch and trans..not sure, flywheel offset by plates (?) I doubt a street car will have 8" which save ton of mass. Tremec's have always been and are kind of a load weight wise. Maybe this one is actually lighter than the GT trans :shrug:

I spend more time typing than thinking (insert Homer Simpson "DOH!!")

You're probably right, I'm overly optimistic about carbon radiator support. I was thinking/hoping it's a large 3ft wide and 2ft tall frame structure but maybe it's just the top piece and only good for 2lbs.

TR-3160 transmission is used in new Cadillac ATS because it's light weight. I don't know GT350's specific weight. But Tremec datasheet states "112lbs with mass reduction". Mustang service manual, "section 308-03A Manual Transaxle/Transmission — MT82 Getrag 6-Speed" states MT82 is 123.5lbs. Tremec T56 Magnum is 135lbs.

If I was designing the car. I'd have a flywheel & clutch assembly balanced unit. You could order replacement piece like a normal clutch. But it's would be a matched set from one manufacture. Chromoly flywheel with aluminum pressure plate and single or twin organic-copper mix or carbon clutches. These set-ups would be much lighter than steel flywheel & steel pressure plate. Plus, have stock (GT) or very near stock pedal weight & engagement.

http://tremec.com/anexos/File/TREMEC_TR-3160.pdf
http://westprecisiontool.com/FILES/GT/mt82 specs & torque values.pdf
http://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=104

 

[908ssp]

The strut tower brace is aluminum on the GT350 not steel as it is on the PP. They mention other chassis stiffening pieces that are going to be lighter. Maybe the .200 thick steel brace that runs from the shock tower to the firewall and on to the other shock tower. How about this brace behind the wheel house? Check out the size of those fasteners this a substantial piece that made in aluminum would be both lighter and stiffer.

 

[AEO]

From the videos 11-17-14 we all seen pics indicate it going to be carbon fiber. Also they mention light weight. Its cause Mustang fans confused with Mustang GT weight. I think the light weight Mustang is going to be GT350 or what ever that Mustang will be and let guess its going to be GT350.

Now lets guess GT350 weight.

My guess its will be 3450 pounds
what is your guesstimate weight?

Not much guessing need to be done it should only be slightly lighter than 3618. which in Ford talk usually means that is probably what it will weigh. Maybe 3600.

"While Ford did not announce curb weight (or other key specs, including power and torque ratings) during the car’s L.A. show reveal, Raj Nair earlier told Automotive Engineering that he expected the GT350 will come in “slightly lighter than the current base Mustang GT—3618 lb (1641 kg) with a manual transmission."

http://articles.sae.org/13712/
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[02gtnh]

Isn't the base 3618 last years curb weight? Looks like the writer wrote the wrong base weight as the 2015 I believe is 3705, and there have been plenty that have weighed there's to back up that weight.

 

[9secondko]

3550...

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