Gains from tires?

[Fordohio]

I'm just getting started into autocross racing and running in the Cam class. Each time i've went I have finished mid pack. The next group were running in the 32 second range. I was in the 35s. So I would have to pick up 3 seconds to get to the next driver. This past weekend I actually walked and looked at the cars that were faster. They all had tires that looked to me to be in the 200tw class of tire. I'm running Falken 510's 275/295s which are a 300tw tire. Of course I need to learn to drive better since I'm new to this. But how much of a handicap am I giving myself with these tires?

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[Ewheels]

Quite a large handicap, actually. Tires are the single greatest performance mod you can get for your car, yet they are usually the most over-looked. If you are still at a point where you want to learn the car and just getting your feet wet, just keep using what you have. Once you have some seat time under your belt, absolutely look into getting better tires. I'm not sure of your class requirements / restrictions but try to run the widest and stickiest tires allowed.

I don't do autocross, only HPDE and now time attack, but when I went from 285 street tires to 305 200tw, it was night and day difference. Major time gains from getting sticky tires.

 

[Norm Peterson]

When you do go with wider and stickier tires, try to avoid limiting their potential by running them on wheels that aren't at least "measuring width" for that size. Autocross is very much about transient handling rather than steady-state.


Norm

 

[EFI]

Quite a large handicap, actually. Tires are the single greatest performance mod you can get for your car

The 2nd statement is true for sure, but I would not consider the gap between 300 and 200 TW tires to be "large". Compared to the likes of RS4s and Supercar 3s etc, those Falkens are slower but not by a huge margin by an means. Certainly not 3 seconds per lap at autocross. And while the RE71R tire is indeed labeled as a 200TW tire, we all know it's not really, so I don't consider that one a real 200TW tire.

The biggest question to the OP though should be what the limit of TW is in his class? If it's unlimited, then yes your 300TW tires are a big handicap. If it's 200TW and up, then it's not as big of a deal but you still stand to gain a little bit of time going from 300 to 200.

Still though, a 200TW tire is not going to get you anywhere near the top, it's going to take more mods (if allowed) or more seat time.

 

[strengthrehab]

Tires won't magically make up 3 seconds on a 30-35 second course by any means. When you get that deficit down to 1 second or less--maybe.

 

[nbjeeptj]

I cant speak to autocross specifically but my experience on track was I started with a 100TW tire and could not learn the edge of grip without going faster than my comfort zone. I switched to less grippy tires and was able to learn what the car feels like on the edge at a slower speed and I think this was the best move I have made in tracking a car yet. Before with the 100TW tires, they did not have as much warning that they were about to give up they just would just let go, and I would spin. A 300tw tire will usually give you a lot of warning you are creeping to the edge. As to the time savings, on a 2.5 mile race track my time difference between wore out 200tw and new 100TW in the same day was only 2.5 sec, So on a autocross run I cant see more than 1 ish seconds, but I have only run one autocross, so I dont know that for sure. My comparison is also not real data due to old v new tires.

 

[EFI]

wore out 200tw and new 100TW in the same day was only 2.5 sec. My comparison is also not real data due to old v new tire.

IMO if the difference was 2.5 old 200 vs new 100, I would say the true difference with both being new would be well under 2 seconds probably closer to 1.5. Which would translate to maybe half a second at autocross. Well behind the 3 seconds OP needs just to get to the next pack of drivers.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Maybe 2 seconds on a 60 second course. Maybe you'd pick up ~1 second on your 32 second course. Depends on how badly heat cycled your current tires are, wheels the tires are mounted on, etc etc.

That might come as 0.5 second immediately, and another 3/4 second after you get used to driving the different stickier tires BTW. Any significant change like a major change in tire type, major suspension changes, etc... there is a driver adjustment period where you won't get the maximum value until you change your habits.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I highly recommend switching to good competitive 200TW tires tho. They much much better suited to the type of driving you do at autocross.

Yes, some people won't be able to grow their skills at controlling the car at the limit after you jump to sticky tires, because the speeds are higher and scarier. Make sure you're ok sliding the car around before you try to increase the limits of the car. You'll learn faster if you're sliding a bit -

that's the most important thing which will make you a better driver. Learn to control the car when its at the edge. Increasing the edge (with stickier tires) will make the car potentially faster, but it won't make the driver better at car control, which is the real thing that determines who wins the event.

 

[Weyland-Yutani]

Welcome to the Auto-X-Rabbit-Hole-Vortex-of-Death.

Tires can make a difference but tread wear values can be kinda subjective. "Grip" can be a dance too. It's entirely possible to have tire X be slightly stickier than tire Y, but tire Y gives better feedback so it's ultimately the better tire (to me).

Also, Auto-X is all transitions so you can actually have an alignment so extreme that it's maniacal for any other driving that isn't cone-carving.

I dunno. If you're fairly new at it, I'd run those 510s into the ground and gather as much data as you can stand. Next season, you'll have a better idea of what you actually want. It may not be what works for another guy, but you can both still be right.

 

[Steve68Cougar]

I've been running CAM-C and I'm right in the middle of the transition from true street tires (Continental Sports) to 200tw tires (Falken Azenis RT660). I'll be ready to go after the car gets aligned on Thursday. I went the route of getting the biggest possible tires under the car without cutting fenders. They're 305/30-19 on 19x11 rims (I went the ET52/studs/spacers/camber plate route). I've been curious how much of an improvement they'll be. I've got several people that I'm usually about a certain distance/time behind, so I'll use the time differential with them to gauge about how much improvement it makes.

I agree with what others are saying about getting more experience on your current tires. I've learned a lot by sliding around on the stock (for an RS2 Roush) 275/35-20 Continentals. My PAX times have steadily improved, but they're still a ways down. I have no illusion the new tires will rocket me to the top, but I have hopes I can improve my standings quite a bit. If I don't improve then it will be because of my driving, not because of the car.

 

[bnightstar]

The 2nd statement is true for sure, but I would not consider the gap between 300 and 200 TW tires to be "large". Compared to the likes of RS4s and Supercar 3s etc, those Falkens are slower but not by a huge margin by an means.

OEM PP PZero are 300 TW Switching from them to 275/35/19 on 240 TW dropped over 2 seconds at my local 2 km long track. This was the biggest upgrade on my car. Now I'm waiting on a set of 19x11 Apex wheels to move from 275/35 to 295/30 in the same TW will let you know how it will goes.

 

[Dana Pants]

Completely stock to completely setup for F Street class reduced a lap time from 85 seconds to 80 seconds at a local club that runs the same too fast autocross course every time. I could prob get another second or two out with the latest autocross tires.

 

[kz]

I'm just getting started into autocross racing and running in the Cam class. Each time i've went I have finished mid pack. The next group were running in the 32 second range. I was in the 35s. So I would have to pick up 3 seconds to get to the next driver. This past weekend I actually walked and looked at the cars that were faster. They all had tires that looked to me to be in the 200tw class of tire. I'm running Falken 510's 275/295s which are a 300tw tire. Of course I need to learn to drive better since I'm new to this. But how much of a handicap am I giving myself with these tires?

If you ran the OVR event last weekend (kinda sounds like it) car that won CAM is a stock B Street 1/LE with a driver that drove it for the first time - not saying that to make you feel bad or anything but owner (former actually - he sold that car on Monday) Chris (he's local to me) ran B Street in Street RWD so you can benchmark yourself against his time keeping in mind it is still a stock street class car (although 1/LE are really competitve compared to modified CAM-C Mustangs).

Others said pretty much everything - Nightmaremoon's comment about limit being higher and more difficult to find is one to look at. If you're new there is a lot of work ahead of you. Get tires, come down to Cinci if it isn't too far for you since OVR has only one event left in the year- our lot isn't great but it's larger than Obetz - 40-45 second courses are typical, they do cap out so would register early. Other place to go is NWOR in Toledo, especially when they run at the airport.

 

[Flyhalf]

The tires are everything.
200tw now are called cheat tires. Cause they grip incredibly good.
Check your rule to see what are the tire size and tw limit.
Best tires for autocross
Falken RT660
Yoko A052
KUHMO ACR (ome size only 295-25-19)many disqualified it cause is too fast.
Goodrich 1.5.
Bridgestone RE71 (but is not produced anymore)

Go get them!

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