Frank Talk About Headers Requested

[nastang87xx]

Also, since I have always gotten my headers coated by Swain Tech and given the intense and lengthy labor costs associated with a quality install, I am thinking headers would be about a $3000 bill for me...

Not worth it. At all. Unless you're adamant about having that long tube header sound. And even still, I might say you're

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[AirBusPilot]

So if I have a wheel bearing fail or the infamous rear axle half shaft problem, you’re saying Ford won’t cover those items since I have headers??? Wrong. Modifications of any type do not void a warranty and folks need to stop making these all encompassing, generic statements. Additionally, even IF a failure is due to or related to a modification, it falls on the manufacture/dealer to prove that your mod caused that failure before they can deny warranty work. Now granted, I will completely agree everyone has a different tolerance level and how much pain they’re willing to endure if ever needed to confront a dealer on a warranty claim, but that’s how they work. Do your homework, the law is on the consumers side when it comes to modifications. Removing emissions parts is a different topic, but headers themselves are not that. Headers are pretty mundane anyways when it comes to this topic. A tune might be pushing a wet noodle uphil (it may cause a burnt piston but good luck proving a tune caused my water pump to fail), but I (personally) wouldn’t hesitate to do headers/exhaust mods for fear of warranty. My engine lost all the oil pressure...yea...please show me how headers (alone) caused that malfunction to deny me a new engine claim.



As a guy like you doing a crap ton of homework to make the same decision, I have come to the conclusion that most may not being doing headers due to the return on your investment. But I’m sure there’s more like me where cost is a rather minuscule factor. I do it for the sheer joy of working and nodding my car the way I like.

I believe ANY engine failure, or systems related, would be denied if you had headers. In theory, you are correct, though. The problem is that you'd have to hire a lawyer, and an expert in headers/engines and fight that "warranty denied" decision in court. Practically speaking, that's what you'd have to do. And then, even with your expert, you'd be in the position of convincing the judge/jury, who are likely non car people.

 

[GreenS550]

If you want safe, drivable power: tune, then blower. Forget the headers unless you attempting all out power. The cost of headers and the noise (unless you want it louder) and high flow cats and labor is very expensive for the rwhp you actually get. Save money do the blower. I put headers on 2 Mustangs with blowers and it improved powerr a bit but added a lot of sound. It isn't just the headers, its also the high flow cats, etc. Pretty high $/hp. Ford puts a very good exhaust on these newer Mustangs.

 

[nastang87xx]

I believe ANY engine failure, or systems related, would be denied if you had headers. In theory, you are correct, though. The problem is that you'd have to hire a lawyer, and an expert in headers/engines and fight that "warranty denied" decision in court. Practically speaking, that's what you'd have to do. And then, even with your expert, you'd be in the position of convincing the judge/jury, who are likely non car people.

I've had engine warranty work done on my car with headers...they looked and were like "OH. Meh." And continued on with the process.

 

[AirBusPilot]

I've had engine warranty work done on my car with headers...they looked and were like "OH. Meh." And continued on with the process.

That's rare and you're fortunate. But, an actual engine *failure* is what I'm talking about. Meaning engine replacement under warranty.

 

[Screamer]

I believe ANY engine failure, or systems related, would be denied if you had headers. In theory, you are correct, though. The problem is that you'd have to hire a lawyer, and an expert in headers/engines and fight that "warranty denied" decision in court. Practically speaking, that's what you'd have to do. And then, even with your expert, you'd be in the position of convincing the judge/jury, who are likely non car people.

Headers aren't the warranty problem. It's the hacked ecu. Ford took a beating at first with the '03-'04 Cobras and later GT 500's. I worked at a dealership. The first few engine failures were repaired, Then if a Cobra was presented with a engine failure the first thing that happens is the ECU is scanned. Anything but a stock ecu and you were politely told a new long block is $8000. However, The '03's had well known issues with excessive valve guide clearance . Ford made good on it even replacing some heads on cars out of warranty

 

[AirBusPilot]

Headers aren't the warranty problem. It's the hacked ecu. Ford took a beating at first with the '03-'04 Cobras and later GT 500's. I worked at a dealership. The first few engine failures were repaired, Then if a Cobra was presented with a engine failure the first thing that happens is the ECU is scanned. Anything but a stock ecu and you were politely told a new long block is $8000. However, The '03's had well known issues with excessive valve guide clearance . Ford made good on it even replacing some heads on cars out of warranty

I agree, but you'll need a tune with headers and nearly every other engine mod. But, yes, it starts with the tune. I believe the warranty guide mentions changing the ecu parameter voids the drivetrain warranty.

 

[Brostang]

You dont need a tune with headers. Just run restrictors/spacers on the rear O2s to clear up the cat cel and youre set. AFR is based on upstream wideband sensors, so there is no NEED for tuning.

 

[17RubyShelbyGT350]

You dont need a tune with headers. Just run restrictors/spacers on the rear O2s to clear up the cat cel and youre set. AFR is based on upstream wideband sensors, so there is no NEED for tuning.

Now that is interesting because I have been told otherwise. Hmmm. another line of research. Although at this point, I am getting more inclined to wait to hear more feedback from those who have actually done this mod -before making a final decision.

At this time, I am beginning to think that spending $3k plus for ceramic coated headers plus their install may simply not be worth it. Especially since I can run a few more points octane with my current power mods and get at least 10-15 more ponies and torque. There is a point of diminishing power ROI on this NA motor and perhaps best bang for the buck further mods are in the handling and weight reduction departments...

 

[autobahnGT350]

At this time, I am beginning to think that spending $3k plus for ceramic coated headers plus their install may simply not be worth it. Especially since I can run a few more points octane with my current power mods and get at least 10-15 more ponies and torque. There is a point of diminishing power ROI on this NA motor and perhaps best bang for the buck further mods are in the handling and weight reduction departments...

That’s about how I feel too. With regards to a CAI with a 93 tune, and the Ford Racing by Borla sport exhaust, my car was way more responsive. At Summit Raceway, threw in some 103 or 105, and my car felt like it had a blower, well, I mean the power increase was definitely noticeable.

I had some experiences with my past corvette Z06 in Germany with headers, and it’s always a contentious issue. Some people don’t care about warranty, while others do, for whatever reasons. I do, because I am also worried about the costs for replacement if a warranty is not upheld. I am little more cautious as well since I bought the full 7 year 75,000 mile extended warranty.

As far as balancing weight and HP, I have been exploring options to balance both, a little more HP here, and a little less weight there. This is useful for comparison: http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/03/power-to-weight-ratio/

At the end of the day, you need to do what you feel comfortable with. Headers in these cars do make power, mostly with a proper tune though, and then you have the issue of being more loud, and potential warrantty issues.

I will tell you, out of all of the cars I have owned,where I could have added headers, I did. But, this car, I am very on the fence. Heck, I remove my CAI and tune just bringing the car in for an oil change:eyebulge:

http://http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/03/power-to-weight-ratio/

 

[AirBusPilot]

You dont need a tune with headers. Just run restrictors/spacers on the rear O2s to clear up the cat cel and youre set. AFR is based on upstream wideband sensors, so there is no NEED for tuning.

Not adding a tune with headers makes the whole expensive mod seem not worth the trouble.

 

[jvandy50]

Is there any way you can buy beer for some local buddies and save on labor? Would almost literally cut your price in half.

Concerning all the warranty talk, has anyone seen a broke motor get denied? Whether it was tuned or not? Just curious.

One case i saw on facebook where the consensus was that it was tune related and the post got deleted...so i’m Guessing that might be one

 

[Brostang]

No research needed, this forum has all you need. In the FI section, GT guys run headers with the whipple flare tune despite it being setup for stock headers/cats. No big deal. The rear O2s are just for showing the cats are working (emissions readiness). Spacers/restrictors take care of the change in exhaust flow "as seen" by the rear O2s so they think oem cats are in place. The stock tune will adjust injector duty cycle based on the stock maf transfer function and wideband O2 values. Stock target AFR (really lambda) values wont change with the addition of headers because the stock maf housing and wideband O2s are still in place. Therefore the increase in airflow will yield power increase, without tuning.

This guy made an extra ~20hp/10tq with kooks headers and pump 93 on the stock tune: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81203&highlight=Header

Edit: also i dont have headers, just been doing lots of research myself. If cost still seems prohibitive, the lethal OR pipes may be a good substitute as they now retain dampers and have flex pipes

 

[17RubyShelbyGT350]

If you want safe, drivable power: tune, then blower. Forget the headers unless you attempting all out power. The cost of headers and the noise (unless you want it louder) and high flow cats and labor is very expensive for the rwhp you actually get. Save money do the blower. I put headers on 2 Mustangs with blowers and it improved powerr a bit but added a lot of sound. It isn't just the headers, its also the high flow cats, etc. Pretty high $/hp. Ford puts a very good exhaust on these newer Mustangs.

If I wanted to go the blower route, I would have bought a GT, and with the money saved, put a blower on it. I have been to this party before and I have a supercharged SQ5 - great for what it is.

But to take one of the most, if not the most highly evolved V8 ever put into any Mustang - or for that matter, and American car, plus severely detract from perhaps the best handling B8 mustang ever made, is a non-starter for me.

And I know what the addition of a blower can do to the finely tuned balance of car known for its handling prowess. Learned it when I stuck a blower on my '02 Corvette Z06. Turned a scalpel into a butter knife. :(

 

[GreenS550]

Those are good points. If I owned a GT350, I would likely leave it completely stock because of its uniqueness. Because of the expense of making the engine in the GT350 I believe it will one day end up a true collectors car.
As far as handling goes with a blower, I think of the incredible handling of the Camaro Zl1 1LE. The blower didn't hurt that Camaro at all. Check the handling as well. Torque out of a turn can do wonders.
I am a solid Ford guy, so I would never, ever buy a Chevy. And, the way I set my '11 GT up, blower, wattslink, suspension, etc, it handled really, really good.
Just thoughts. Headers will give you some power, but at the cost of taking away the allure of a truly stock GT350.
As you have alluded to, if you want to mod, get a GT, save 20-30K, mod it properly and it WILL out perfrom the stock GT350 maybe even an R.
This is just my opinion. You have a fantastic car. In my opinion, I would leave it a virgin.

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