Let's talk crank damper/balancers, IW vs ATI vs Stock

[mmakam2]

I just ordered an Innovator's West 817 balancer for my GT350. I am going forced induction so this is one of the supporting mods. I opted for the IW because the technology seems to be more advanced than stock (rubber rings), and based my discussions with IW, their system dampens more harmonics across a wider RPM range. I felt this was important for a FPC motor which creates a lot of vibrations/harmonics.

This was one of the hardest decisions I have made for a aftermarket part, because ATI has such a good track record and both are SFI approved. I just felt that ATI was basically a higher quality/lighter stock style balancer where the IW was truly an upgrade.

The IW system uses clutches that spin in a liquid medium that's how they are able to work across a larger RPM range.

Thoughts??

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[honeybadger]

When I was doing my motor rebuild, I talked with TONS of folks - from multiple engine builders to industry professionals and even a few Ford engineers through friends of friends. Was told that changing dampeners on the Voodoo is a very risky proposition as that dampener was EXTENSIVELY developed for the FPC. It's the only car that's used it.

I've personally chatted with 3 owners that snapped a crank using an ATI dampener.

Obviously your project will take a different turn given your FI and I was N/A, but I highly recommend you make sure that the dampener you purchase is extensively tested and built exclusively for the Voodoo FPC. These engines have unique characteristics that need to be accounted for. Standard coyote parts in the wrong areas can be catastrophic.

Good luck with the build!

 

[mmakam2]

When I was doing my motor rebuild, I talked with TONS of folks - from multiple engine builders to industry professionals and even a few Ford engineers through friends of friends. Was told that changing dampeners on the Voodoo is a very risky proposition as that dampener was EXTENSIVELY developed for the FPC. It's the only car that's used it.

I've personally chatted with 3 owners that snapped a crank using an ATI dampener.

Obviously your project will take a different turn given your FI and I was N/A, but I highly recommend you make sure that the dampener you purchase is extensively tested and built exclusively for the Voodoo FPC. These engines have unique characteristics that need to be accounted for. Standard coyote parts in the wrong areas can be catastrophic.

Good luck with the build!

You are scaring the poop out of me. LOL. I am glad at least I am not going with the ATI considering what you heard.

I wonder if there is some way to quantatively measure before and after affects of the part.

 

[honeybadger]

You are scaring the poop out of me. LOL. I am glad at least I am not going with the ATI considering what you heard.

I wonder if there is some way to quantatively measure before and after affects of the part.

Ha, my apologies. To be honest, it should. If your crank fails, it will grenade literally the entire engine. It's really bad news. These engines were not built with boosting in mind from what I was told.

Doesn't mean you can't, just means you'll need to take extra precautions to address the weaknesses. I'd start by asking IW how the dampener was developed and what their experience was like testing it on the Voodoo. If they give you detailed responses on unique challenges, you should be good. But if you get a canned "yeah, it works on that," I'd be very cautious. All the time and effort I put into my car the last year has taught me one thing - this is motor that demands you sweat the details.

What do Whipple, VMP, etc. all recommend? What about ProCharger?

 

[mmakam2]

Ha, my apologies. To be honest, it should. If your crank fails, it will grenade literally the entire engine. It's really bad news. These engines were not built with boosting in mind from what I was told.

Doesn't mean you can't, just means you'll need to take extra precautions to address the weaknesses. I'd start by asking IW how the dampener was developed and what their experience was like testing it on the Voodoo. If they give you detailed responses on unique challenges, you should be good. But if you get a canned "yeah, it works on that," I'd be very cautious. All the time and effort I put into my car the last year has taught me one thing - this is motor that demands you sweat the details.

What do Whipple, VMP, etc. all recommend? What about ProCharger?

IW has the same part no for the coyotes as the voodoo, i'll try to talk to them tomorrow to see what they have done as far as testing.

I called Whipple, they sell ATI dampers with their 10 rib systems. I brought up the stuff that you mentioned and he said he hadn't heard of any failures and either one should work fine.

When I called Procharger they actually include IW crank dampers in ALL of their GT350 kits. I'm still trying to figure out if this is a custom damper or the same 817 damper that I ordered. Hopefully will find out tomorrow. Before he realized this, he said he hadn't heard of any issues with either company, then as I was about to hang up he like realized they did include IW dampers in their procharger kits. I don't think the sales techs are really the best people to talk to about this specific of a question unfortunately.

I will keep making calls tomorrow and keep everyone posted on what I find out.

 

[mmakam2]

Ha, my apologies. To be honest, it should. If your crank fails, it will grenade literally the entire engine. It's really bad news. These engines were not built with boosting in mind from what I was told.

Doesn't mean you can't, just means you'll need to take extra precautions to address the weaknesses. I'd start by asking IW how the dampener was developed and what their experience was like testing it on the Voodoo. If they give you detailed responses on unique challenges, you should be good. But if you get a canned "yeah, it works on that," I'd be very cautious. All the time and effort I put into my car the last year has taught me one thing - this is motor that demands you sweat the details.

What do Whipple, VMP, etc. all recommend? What about ProCharger?

Curious, the guys who had broken cranks, were they supercharged? Were the motors built? What kind of numbers were they putting down? I ask because maybe the failures weren't because of the damper but because of the power numbers. If they were all N/A then that's very concerning.

 

[Offboost]

I emailed ATI Last year this is there response I think you should stay with the stock unit!

Good morning Les,

I am told the 2018s are different but I have not been able to confirm what the differences are yet so no, at this time, we do not offer a damper for that application.

I am familiar with that flat plane crank though … makes a sound all its own!


Thank you,

 

[mmakam2]

I emailed ATI Last year this is there response I think you should stay with the stock unit!

Good morning Les,

I am told the 2018s are different but I have not been able to confirm what the differences are yet so no, at this time, we do not offer a damper for that application.

I am familiar with that flat plane crank though … makes a sound all its own!


Thank you,

The 2018 and 19 damper should be identical to the 16-17. He was probably thinking of the GTs

 

[Offboost]

Yes but they do not offer a pulley for any GT350 engine because of the flat plane crank.

 

[mmakam2]

Yes but they do not offer a pulley for any GT350 engine because of the flat plane crank.

You may be right about that in which case it's really shitty that a lot of vendors offer it specifically for the GT350.

https://www.lethalperformance.com/a...019-mustang-gt-5-0l-2015-2019-5-2l-gt350.html

 

[Offboost]

You may be right about that in which case it's really shitty that a lot of vendors offer it specifically for the GT350.

https://www.lethalperformance.com/a...019-mustang-gt-5-0l-2015-2019-5-2l-gt350.html

It may fit but probably does not dampen properly since 1 part number fits both cross plane and flat plane cranks, I think in this case if it ain't broke don't fix it just my 2cents.

 

[mmakam2]

It may fit but probably does not dampen properly since 1 part number fits both cross plane and flat plane cranks, I think in this case if it ain't broke don't fix it just my 2cents.

I would agree with you but I'm not staying NA and I'm not getting the ATI.

 

[mmakam2]

interesting article about a guy who built a LS architecture FPC motor. I see an ATI damper on this one.

https://jalopnik.com/some-mad-genius-gave-a-corvette-z06-a-flat-plane-crank-1829362964

 

[mmakam2]

Procharger includes the 817 Innovator's West damper for their Voodoo kits. This is the same one I ordered and the same one they put on the Coyotes.

Unfortunately so few people boost these cars so there is not enough evidence out there on what works and what doesn't.

 

[mmakam2]

I just talked to Fathouse Fabrications, they have 800R, 1000R, 1200R, 1400R packages for the 350. These use the stock damper on the 800R and 1000R, but they switch to an ATI damper for the 1200R and up. I asked them about people who have cracked cranks using ATI dampers, they said all these folks had supercharged motors not turbo or NA.

They even use the stock crank when they build the motor for the 1200R+ packages. These guys have some of the fastest GT350s out there, so this is definitely a good datapoint FOR upgrading the damper.

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