Let's talk crank damper/balancers, IW vs ATI vs Stock

[honeybadger]

IIRC the ones who broke the crank all broke them at the snout, it definitely seemed like the dampener was a large contributing factor. But who knows for sure.

Fathouse is probably the most experience boosting the Voodoo for sure. Too bad TTing a Voodoo is so damn expensive and complicated.

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[mmakam2]

IIRC the ones who broke the crank all broke them at the snout, it definitely seemed like the dampener was a large contributing factor. But who knows for sure.

Fathouse is probably the most experience boosting the Voodoo for sure. Too bad TTing a Voodoo is so damn expensive and complicated.

TTing it is not that complicated actually. The sleeper style kit from Hellion is a bolt in kit. They just released it its basically the same as the GT kit. If you are new to turbocharging I guess it can be different than a blower, but its not that complicated at all.

 

[Jay-rod427]

I just talked to Fathouse Fabrications, they have 800R, 1000R, 1200R, 1400R packages for the 350. These use the stock damper on the 800R and 1000R, but they switch to an ATI damper for the 1200R and up. I asked them about people who have cracked cranks using ATI dampers, they said all these folks had supercharged motors not turbo or NA.

They even use the stock crank when they build the motor for the 1200R+ packages. These guys have some of the fastest GT350s out there, so this is definitely a good datapoint FOR upgrading the damper.

Wrong. Turbo and N/A engines have broken them too.

 

[honeybadger]

TTing it is not that complicated actually. The sleeper style kit from Hellion is a bolt in kit. They just released it its basically the same as the GT kit. If you are new to turbocharging I guess it can be different than a blower, but its not that complicated at all.

I was thinking of how Fathouse does it. There's is a bit more complicated with entirely new, custom exhaust, Motec ECU, etc. Those guys do great work and they've really ironed out the bugs. Would most definitely use them if I was going down that path.

Wrong. Turbo and N/A engines have broken them too.

Literally no one has said that only supercharged motors are breaking cranks...

 

[mmakam2]

I was thinking of how Fathouse does it. There's is a bit more complicated with entirely new, custom exhaust, Motec ECU, etc. Those guys do great work and they've really ironed out the bugs. Would most definitely use them if I was going down that path.



Literally no one has said that only supercharged motors are breaking cranks...

I said that Fathouse Fab told ME directly on the phone that people breaking cranks are usually supercharged..

 

[mmakam2]

I was thinking of how Fathouse does it. There's is a bit more complicated with entirely new, custom exhaust, Motec ECU, etc. Those guys do great work and they've really ironed out the bugs. Would most definitely use them if I was going down that path.



Literally no one has said that only supercharged motors are breaking cranks...

Fathouse just does basically the same parts as Hellion on their 800r package. It is manifolds, piping, intercoolers, injectors, turbos, bovs, wastegates, oil feed/return.. Not even a fuel pump booster.

On the 1000r they do a full return style fuel system, go to E85.

Motec is an avialable upgrade on any of their packages for an extra 14,5. It gives you all the controllability of drive modes and ghost cams, and a bunch of cools stuff you cant do with the stock PCM.

 

[honeybadger]

I said that Fathouse Fab told ME directly on the phone that people breaking cranks are usually supercharged..

Keyword: usually.

But no one has made a claim that you're only going to break a crank on supercharged motor. Just calling that bullshit out before this thread goes down a rabbit hole that's not relevant to what you're asking for.

 

[Jay-rod427]

Keyword: usually.

But no one has made a claim that you're only going to break a crank on supercharged motor. Just calling that bullshit out before this thread goes down a rabbit hole that's not relevant to what you're asking for.

I just talked to Fathouse Fabrications, they have 800R, 1000R, 1200R, 1400R packages for the 350. These use the stock damper on the 800R and 1000R, but they switch to an ATI damper for the 1200R and up. I asked them about people who have cracked cranks using ATI dampers, they said all these folks had supercharged motors not turbo or NA.

They even use the stock crank when they build the motor for the 1200R+ packages. These guys have some of the fastest GT350s out there, so this is definitely a good datapoint FOR upgrading the damper.

Just going off of what I quoted...

 

[honeybadger]

I just talked to Fathouse Fabrications, they have 800R, 1000R, 1200R, 1400R packages for the 350. These use the stock damper on the 800R and 1000R, but they switch to an ATI damper for the 1200R and up. I asked them about people who have cracked cranks using ATI dampers, they said all these folks had supercharged motors not turbo or NA.

They even use the stock crank when they build the motor for the 1200R+ packages. These guys have some of the fastest GT350s out there, so this is definitely a good datapoint FOR upgrading the damper.

Just going off of what I quoted...

Once again - one shop making a statement about their experience. Still - no one has said that N/A and Turbo cars aren't susceptible to breaking cranks...

 

[mmakam2]

Once again - one shop making a statement about their experience. Still - no one has said that N/A and Turbo cars aren't susceptible to breaking cranks...

Correct, but it is well known that superchargers put more stress on the crank and bearings, so its not that NA or Turbo cars are susceptible, but that blown cars are More susceptible.

 

[mmakam2]

I just talked to Fathouse Fabrications, they have 800R, 1000R, 1200R, 1400R packages for the 350. These use the stock damper on the 800R and 1000R, but they switch to an ATI damper for the 1200R and up. I asked them about people who have cracked cranks using ATI dampers, they said all these folks had supercharged motors not turbo or NA.

They even use the stock crank when they build the motor for the 1200R+ packages. These guys have some of the fastest GT350s out there, so this is definitely a good datapoint FOR upgrading the damper.

Just going off of what I quoted...

Ok the "all" isn't accurate because no-one can know that, but my point was that Fathouse said they believe most crank failures are due to superchargers.

 

[mmakam2]

I talked to Innovator's West about crank failures and supercharging, especially with the centrifugal style. He heard of some failures especially when the BOVs were stuck or the vacuum line was missing. Basically what happens when the TB closes the supercharger hits a brick wall, kind of like compressor surge on a turbo.

This puts a shitload of stress on the crank through the belt because the blower is trying to reverse, you see stripped crank keys and broken snouts from this type of issue.

Also, just because the broken cranks were at the snout, that does not give you any indication that it was the damper. On a supercharged motor this is where the failure would be if it failed due to the supercharger putting too much stress on the crank.

 

[mmakam2]

One more data point, the 5.2 voodoo does in fact have a different part number than GT 5.0 motors, not sure if its actually different or just the part number is different

FR3Z-6312-A = 15-17 GT pulley, but weirdly enough most places list this as a direct replacement for the GT350 5.2 motor also
GR3Z-6312-B = Voodoo OEM crank pulley

Oddly enough, both are very cheap

 

[GrabberBlue]

The Voodoo most definitely uses a different crank dampener than the Coyote, it's an Select Tuned Elastomeric Dampener.

While I'm not engineer my interpretation of that is an elastic coated dampener that is tuned to absorb specific frequencies of vibration.

I'd agree with not changing the dampener unless the company has a product specific for the Voodoo.

 

[mmakam2]

The Voodoo most definitely uses a different crank dampener than the Coyote, it's an Select Tuned Elastomeric Dampener.

While I'm not engineer my interpretation of that is an elastic coated dampener that is tuned to absorb specific frequencies of vibration.

I'd agree with not changing the dampener unless the company has a product specific for the Voodoo.

Yes its probably a little different, based on the part number.

Whats nice about the IW damper is its a broadband damper like Fluidamper or TCI, because of the inertia rings in liquid its not tuned for one frequency but works across the entire rpm range.

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