Forced Induction for the daily driver.

[SVTFreak]

I don't understand why people keep mentioning 30-40k as being a lot of miles. I can hit that in a year and a half to two years. That's not much longevity out of a motor. Certainly doesn't qualify as forever.

I didnt say 30k was alot, I merely relayed my personal experience with mine.

There is no reason a properly tuned 550-600 whp coyote wouldn't live for 100k+. I would invest in billet oil pump gears. Don't overdo the boost and you're fine. Honestly, it won't see wot all the time anyway.

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[JoeDogInKC]

I don't have a lot of experience with FI, but here's my perspective. I really like the ProCharger (centrifugal supercharger) setup in my car. It builds boost linearly as the revs increase, and it doesn't add a ton of torque down low. This allows me to drive it very much like a normal N/A Coyote. In fact, when I first drove it afterwards, I really couldn't tell much of a difference from stock from a regular drivability standpoint. Keep your foot out of it and it's extremely tame and very much like stock. Get into it heavily and the boost comes on hard.

It makes it much better, IMO, on fairly stock setups with "regular" tires. I'm running on P-Zero Nero A/S's for Winter and it's very drivable, even when it's extremely cold outside. Unless I'm trying to spin the tires, it's not going to happen. I was actually pretty shocked about how much traction I do have with these tires and this much power.

On top of that, I get extremely good gas mileage out of a PP-equipped GT with it installed. When taking the highway, even up to 80mph, I can pretty easily get 25mpg. I've seen it go as high as 27mpg on 20 - 45 minute trips while just cruising on the highway. On the flip side, if you're hooning it, expect much worse mpg. LOL, I've seen it average 8mpg when I'm out having some fun.

Since it does behave similarly to an old school single turbo (without the lag), 3k to 7k when WOT will test your reflexes until you're used to the increased shift times.

 

[Khyber]

You could make the same statement about any modern car, as they will all go way beyond any speed limits in North America.

I'm of the adage it is not how fast you can go, but how quickly you can get to the speed limit (or a little beyond in some cases...).

true but are you saying that 435 hp mustang doesn't get to 45mph speed limit fast enough or 70 mph on the interestates? I mean it's pretty damn fast to get to a speed limit!

 

[foghat]

true but are you saying that 435 hp mustang doesn't get to 45mph speed limit fast enough or 70 mph on the interestates? I mean it's pretty damn fast to get to a speed limit!

Fast enough? What's that?

 

[Wolfman625]

true but are you saying that 435 hp mustang doesn't get to 45mph speed limit fast enough or 70 mph on the interestates? I mean it's pretty damn fast to get to a speed limit!

Not fast enough for me. Definitely doing a blower soon. Just find myself going back and forth between roush/Whipple or Procharge. Car is DD and plan on hitting the strip occasionally.

 

[Barrel]

I think when it comes down to it, buying an OEM FI car is the only way to get a long life out of a motor under boost. I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it to do internals when I do my blower or to just wait 'til I break something...

 

[evo8904]

I think when it comes down to it, buying an OEM FI car is the only way to get a long life out of a motor under boost. I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it to do internals when I do my blower or to just wait 'til I break something...

I wait for things to break.

 

[Wolfman625]

Iv seen plenty of boosted cars last well over 85k miles.
coyote should already have forged internals. Boosted coyotes have proven to be very reliable amd easy to drive

 

[ProChargerTECH]

Turbo's are not as "bolt on" as a blower is.

No such thing as too much boost when you are just toodle-ing around. You're not in the boost. So there is no boost.

Agree

There is no best. The OEM's seem to think it's a PD blower though. Do you see many centri blown OEM cars?

Disagree

This goes back to the early days of hot rodding, and being able to get Mccullough Supercharger's on hot rods. Centrifugals have been around!
Heck look at what powered the planes of the World Wars. Centrifugal, or Centrifugal/turbo combos. NO HEAT SOAK! For long term WOT usage.

However, there are many reasons OEM's use Roots/Screws.
Most OEM's own or have a close relationship with producers of Roots/Screw blowers such as EATON. (Or the Roush/Ford Relationship) So naturally, it goes hand and hand.

Same reason why the new 300HP Kawasaki Motorcycle uses a Centrifugal.
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2015-Ninja-H2R

Because the Centrifugal supercharger was designed and manufactured buy Kawasaki's turbine division.

Packaging also plays a factor. As well as patents. (this is a big factor) And scale, building 30,000 blowers a year is different then 325,000 blowers per year. (Just example numbers, but the point is made)

Also, the Roots/Screw blower gives that seat of the pants "WOW" factor for the average car buyer wants. You know they guy that just blips the throttle to show off for his friends between stop lights, but doesn't really race or stay in the throttle. This really is nearly 98% of the buyers of various performance cars/trucks. Where spinning tires = performance. (Kinda like Muscle cars of back in the day. So much big block tire spinning torque, and still 14 second quarter mile times) Sometimes the illusion of fast, is more important then actual "fast." Same reason the current OEM's have programed the throttles to be very touchy at low speed. (When you give the car/truck 12% throttle taking off, but the ECU commands say 65% throttle for a moment)

At the end of the day, OEM's have used Centrifugal, Roots/Screws, and turbos. Just wanted to make sure that it was understood the reasons behind why OEM's use various versions.

 

[badass03ragtop]

I can tell you some of my experience with FI just to maybe help a little:

1) I have a TS blown '03 that has 100K on it and has not had a rebuild. It has seen many trips down the 1/4 mile and is a daily driver. Granted, older 2V 4.6 making 412rwhp on an ultra-conservative 11.0:1 A/F ratio tune and running 11# of intercooled boost.

2) '73 with a roots blown 428 SCJ running 1100 - 1300rwhp that only saw track duty: required rebuilds about every 100 miles.

3) Friend's TT '03 Mach 1, can't remember his boost level, but I know he is making 600+rwhp and has 70K on the clock. He rarely get's it into boost anymore, it is a DD, and saw track use in the beginning, but hardly ever now.

4) '88 GT, pushrod 5.0, cetrifugal blower and NO2, 743rwhp on race gas, oil pump shaft spun off at 64K taking out the bottom end of the engine. This was a DD and weekend warrior.

Conclusions: As was stated, boost is not always present, so with a good tune, engine longevity can be achieved if it's used as a DD and doesn't see peak boost all of the time, like my '03. However, as illustrated by the '73, frequent boost, at high levels, under track conditions, will require frequent rebuilds and top end components (forged or billet internals), or, as illustrated by the '88, don't rebuild it, and it will eventually grenade itself!!

The only reason OEM FI cars last longer is that if they're running any real boost, the manufacturer has upgraded internal components, a la '03 Terminator, GT500, etc. Where people run into problems is running too much boost, or running it too frequently, on stock bottom end components.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

I think when it comes down to it, buying an OEM FI car is the only way to get a long life out of a motor under boost. I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it to do internals when I do my blower or to just wait 'til I break something...

We sell countless systems everyday, and the very vast majority of them is sold for OEM stock motor cars. Keep your boost level safe, and make sure your tune is spot on, and you will enjoy BOOST for years and years!

Same as this customer I mentioned before: 230K miles!!!
http://www.procharger.com/supercharger/blog/?p=961

 

[beefcake]

IMO the centrifugal

Paxton / Procharger / Vortech are the best kits.

The way the power delivery comes on makes it much more controllable. Once you learn the power bands in your centri car, you will be almost unbeatable on the street.

We daily drove our 8.75 2011 car (@3875lbs) to and from the track, full weight on a 275 drag radial the same way we daily drove it on 275 radials.

Car at that time was 100% street trim, and the way I could get the car to work on the street was incredible.

People want to argue the "low end torque" all day. Torque doesn't win races, HP does.

The 2011 car now makes about 700ft/lbs and runs 8.17@166 mph!

[ame]

 

[Strokerswild]

I have yet to own a centri-blown car, and my '15 might be the guinea pig.

My personal experience is that Roots-blown cars tend to just want to blow the tires off the instant you stand on it, versus the more gradual hit of a centri. For my intended use as a road car I think the centri would be the ticket.

If I do it, a ProCharger will get the nod.

 

[DivineStrike]

All of them don't always make boost. You could drive them forever and never make 1 psi if you want too.

ok, maybe saying positive boost is not accurate. However, if a twin screw is spinning, is it not compressing air, increasing airflow over what a non SC engine would be making at the same throttle input and rpm? Making a similar response to just giving an NA car more throttle. I hope I'm explaining this idea right. Anyhow, i'm also not trying to make the impression I know much about SC, which I don't. Just trying to get a better understanding. As I see much back and forth on whether a pd supercharger is doing "work" 100% of the time or not. I understand there are some "bypasses", do all superchargers include this? I'm under the impression they don't.

Wrong

Normally if I call someone wrong, I give them an explanation...so do tell.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

People want to argue the "low end torque" all day. Torque doesn't win races, HP does.

Don't say that.
You will get murdered on here.

Torque does matter to a point.
However if it was all about TQ, then we would all be racing Diesels.

I am going to shoot a video of the dash of our Mustang, on a 1/4 run.
And then time how long the tach is below 3,000 RPM vs. sitting right in the "sweet spot" for a centrifugal.
Actually on second thought I don't have to. Somewhere I have the datalog from our 2011 Stock GT going 10's with the i1. I just need to find it.

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