First 3 track days... What's next?

[pilotgore]

Gotcha. Should I expect that all seats I would be looking at will easily swap quickly? Or are there particular categories / keywords that I should be looking for?

Thank you for the patience and answers, I'm quite ignorant in the topic.

The whole seat debate is never ending. I'm one of the few on here that owns a set of the Dairy Queen (sport seats) and Recaro's that I swap between occasionally, and I much prefer the Dairy Queen seats on track and off. Honestly they don't behave much differently from the drivers standpoint if you're wearing a harness (like the schroth quick fit pro.). I do notice my passengers are slightly (and I mean slightly) better planted in the recaros around turns, but thats just a minor plus. The Recaro's do look cooler (objectively.). However, Its awful nice having the heated or cooled seat on while on track, and the comfort level from my perspective is definitely better in the DQ seats

I'm 6'4" 230lbs, so I understand the headroom issue. I took my car to Simpson to shop for helmets, and tried on 15 or so different models looking for the best fit. I found one of the lowest profiles on top of the dome is the Simpson Bandit ($350'ish.) Buying a new helmet might be a great option to look into in order to gain headroom. It might not seem like it would make a big difference, but it absolutely does. I was having all kinds of headliner rubbing issues until a friend suggested I change helmets. After switching, problem solved. (I had the same issues in my Z06 and Mini.... the new helmet solved the problem there also.)

Any S550 mustang seat and seat bracket will work on the GT350, so use google accordingly. The best scenario would be to visit a race shop that offers many different types of seats to try out in person before buying. However.... those seats are one trick ponies. I think day to day driving comfort would suffer for minimal gains while on track. Recaro sells a very similar seats to the one that came in the GT350, but they cant sell the exact same one for contractural reasons (thats what they told me.). I think the model thats 95% the same is called the sportster GT or something like that. as @honeybadger said, seat removal is very easy. 4 Torx bolts get removed, unclip 2 wiring harnesses under the seat, and pull the seat out of the car.

Another consideration for aftermarket seats is that you'll get airbag warnings constantly unless you invest in some modifications (new resistors and swapping the seat ballast from your old seat.)

I liked someone else's suggestion of getting comfortable with the car for quite a while before making changes. Once you really understand your car, you'll have a great idea of what you actually need.

(in the pic, the recaro seat is in a raised up position so it looks like it sits taller than the DQ seat. In reality, they offer the same headroom space when installed and theyre in identical configurations.)

Sponsored

 

[theruleslawyer]

Maybe. On the other hand there is a lot to be learned about car control, threshold braking, mastering the line and becoming consistent that is more easily learned with the grip afforded by street tires. R Comps are certainly going to permit higher speeds but could interfere with the learning required to become a faster driver, not a driver of a faster car, right? More grip can cover mistakes for a time, but after just a handful of track days I’d recommend high quality summer tires for the track for a while longer.

I figure if you're going fast enough to start greasing street tires you're going fast enough to consider a better tire. I don't know where he is, but after only a few track days I was already feeling the limits of street tires. What I wouldn't do it buy another set of street tires for new dedicated track wheels. I'd hold off on the purchase. Maybe once he gets the bump to intermediate group he can swap over.

 

[pilotgore]

I figure if you're going fast enough to start greasing street tires you're going fast enough to consider a better tire. I don't know where he is, but after only a few track days I was already feeling the limits of street tires. What I wouldn't do it buy another set of street tires for new dedicated track wheels. I'd hold off on the purchase. Maybe once he gets the bump to intermediate group he can swap over.

I agree with @Egparson202

I had a student last year who had 3 tracks days under his belt, and at the end of his first day with me, he declared he needed to switch to slicks because he had reached the limited of his street tires (cup 2's.) I tried to explain to him that just because you're hitting the traction limit of the tire, that doesn't mean you can't pickup a good amount of time by improving your technique and by changing the way you use all of the avaiable grip. He politely disagreed with me...... which I totally understand. You don't know what you don't know sometimes. So... I took him out for an advanced session in my car (which were identical) so he could see what the same tire was capable of with a better technique. His fastest time was 1:27.23 for the day..... mine was a 1:15.56.

In my opinion, theres no point in switching to an R compound tire that'll give you some slightly faster times, sure, but it'll also wear significantly quicker and give you less bang for the buck. The cheapest and best mod is often to upgrade the nut behind the wheel.

While I'm busy fighting for 10'ths or 100'ths of a second off my personal best every time I go to the track, I have no doubt a pro driver like Billy Johnson (with a massively better skillset and technique) could instantly shave seconds off my best time.

Just my $.04 (inflation...)

 

[brokenblinker]

The whole seat debate is never ending. I'm one of the few on here that owns a set of the Dairy Queen (sport seats) and Recaro's that I swap between occasionally, and I much prefer the Dairy Queen seats on track and off. Honestly they don't behave much differently from the drivers standpoint if you're wearing a harness (like the schroth quick fit pro.). I do notice my passengers are slightly (and I mean slightly) better planted in the recaros around turns, but thats just a minor plus. The Recaro's do look cooler (objectively.). However, Its awful nice having the heated or cooled seat on while on track, and the comfort level from my perspective is definitely better in the DQ seats

I'm 6'4" 230lbs, so I understand the headroom issue. I took my car to Simpson to shop for helmets, and tried on 15 or so different models looking for the best fit. I found one of the lowest profiles on top of the dome is the Simpson Bandit ($350'ish.) Buying a new helmet might be a great option to look into in order to gain headroom. It might not seem like it would make a big difference, but it absolutely does. I was having all kinds of headliner rubbing issues until a friend suggested I change helmets. After switching, problem solved. (I had the same issues in my Z06 and Mini.... the new helmet solved the problem there also.)

Any S550 mustang seat and seat bracket will work on the GT350, so use google accordingly. The best scenario would be to visit a race shop that offers many different types of seats to try out in person before buying. However.... those seats are one trick ponies. I think day to day driving comfort would suffer for minimal gains while on track. Recaro sells a very similar seats to the one that came in the GT350, but they cant sell the exact same one for contractural reasons (thats what they told me.). I think the model thats 95% the same is called the sportster GT or something like that. as @honeybadger said, seat removal is very easy. 4 Torx bolts get removed, unclip 2 wiring harnesses under the seat, and pull the seat out of the car.

Another consideration for aftermarket seats is that you'll get airbag warnings constantly unless you invest in some modifications (new resistors and swapping the seat ballast from your old seat.)

I liked someone else's suggestion of getting comfortable with the car for quite a while before making changes. Once you really understand your car, you'll have a great idea of what you actually need.

(in the pic, the recaro seat is in a raised up position so it looks like it sits taller than the DQ seat. In reality, they offer the same headroom space when installed and theyre in identical configurations.)

Great info here that pretty solidly made me think I'll sit on (pun intended) the seats I have a while longer. If I don't get extra headroom out of the seat, and a harness helps hold in place a lot... I guess my next research topic is starting to investigate harnesses, the different number of attachment points, where they mount, etc.

I figure if you're going fast enough to start greasing street tires you're going fast enough to consider a better tire. I don't know where he is, but after only a few track days I was already feeling the limits of street tires. What I wouldn't do it buy another set of street tires for new dedicated track wheels. I'd hold off on the purchase. Maybe once he gets the bump to intermediate group he can swap over.

On Sunday, I was the fastest car in intermediate group at the NorCal Shelby event at thunderhill recently, but I think the overall group pace was a bit slow. There were definitely 1-2 faster cars than me on Saturday. I'm running consistent 2:12s on Thunderhill East w/ crows nest (cyclone), which I've heard equates to about 2:09s on bypass. Tires were getting a bit greasy by end of late day sessions (MP4S).

 

[brokenblinker]

I agree with @Egparson202

I had a student last year who had 3 tracks days under his belt, and at the end of his first day with me, he declared he needed to switch to slicks because he had reached the limited of his street tires (cup 2's.) I tried to explain to him that just because you're hitting the traction limit of the tire, that doesn't mean you can't pickup a good amount of time by improving your technique and by changing the way you use all of the avaiable grip. He politely disagreed with me...... which I totally understand. You don't know what you don't know sometimes. So... I took him out for an advanced session in my car (which were identical) so he could see what the same tire was capable of with a better technique. His fastest time was 1:27.23 for the day..... mine was a 1:15.56.

In my opinion, theres no point in switching to an R compound tire that'll give you some slightly faster times, sure, but it'll also wear significantly quicker and give you less bang for the buck. The cheapest and best mod is often to upgrade the nut behind the wheel.

While I'm busy fighting for 10'ths or 100'ths of a second off my personal best every time I go to the track, I have no doubt a pro driver like Billy Johnson (with a massively better skillset and technique) could instantly shave seconds off my best time.

Just my $.04 (inflation...)

Yeah, I'm not interested in maximizing time, but I am interested in maximizing consistency of the tire. Honestly, I think my most likely candidate for a next set of tires is a 200TW street tire.

 

[pilotgore]

Yeah, I'm not interested in maximizing time, but I am interested in maximizing consistency of the tire. Honestly, I think my most likely candidate for a next set of tires is a 200TW street tire.

Pilot Supersports and PS4's seems to be some of the best tires out there for mixed use, but there are tons of other good options. Sounds like you've got the right mindset.

For your harness, check this out. I think this is the most popular for S550's guys. Reasonably cheap solution and requires no harness bar or roll bar. Lots of great write ups and videos about install. It's a 4 point harness, but the video describes how the anti-submarine feature works, and why a 5 point isn't necessarily needed for what we do: https://www.schrothracing.com/item/schroth-quickfit-pro/

 

[brokenblinker]

Pilot Supersports and PS4's seems to be some of the best tires out there for mixed use, but there are tons of other good options. Sounds like you've got the right mindset.

For your harness, check this out. I think this is the most popular for S550's guys. Reasonably cheap solution and requires no harness bar or roll bar. Lots of great write ups and videos about install. It's a 4 point harness, but the video describes how the anti-submarine feature works, and why a 5 point isn't necessarily needed for what we do: https://www.schrothracing.com/item/schroth-quickfit-pro/

Wow I learned a ton from that video! That seems like a perfect solution for me. It makes sense that a harness would keep you more still, I was re tightening my factory belt down the back straight every lap. It seems like one of those things where you need to get to a 5/6 point for best safety, but you probably get a good benefit from just jumping to the harness in the first place.


Next on the research list - head restraints!

 

[theruleslawyer]

Yeah, I'm not interested in maximizing time, but I am interested in maximizing consistency of the tire. Honestly, I think my most likely candidate for a next set of tires is a 200TW street tire.

Yah, that exactly what I was thinking. I'm not looking for a hot lap at a hpde, but I am looking to make sure all my equipment lasts the whole session.

 

[pilotgore]

Wow I learned a ton from that video! That seems like a perfect solution for me. It makes sense that a harness would keep you more still, I was re tightening my factory belt down the back straight every lap. It seems like one of those things where you need to get to a 5/6 point for best safety, but you probably get a good benefit from just jumping to the harness in the first place.


Next on the research list - head restraints!

If your research takes you somewhere like this: https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/simpson-hybrid-sport

let me know.... I'll sell you mine for a good price. only been used 3 times

 

[honeybadger]

Agree with the above. Greasy tires don't mean much other than you need to work on technique. Like @pilotgore, I've opened quite a few people's eyes on what better technique can do with tires. My rule of thumb is you don't need more grippy tires until you're 4 wheel drifting everywhere (as in, a sustained, full throttle power slide - "greasy" moments don' count). I love a solid street tire like the SC3 because they force you to focus on good habits and have plenty of headroom if you overcook it.

Edit: going to add this just in case - this guidance is targeted towards people looking to perfect their technique for fast, consistent laps. Obviously in racing you want the best tires you can get and it's very possible to have tires that don't fit the job because they don't have the bite you need them to be competitive. My assumption is these types of people aren't looking for advice.

 

[brokenblinker]

Agree with the above. Greasy tires don't mean much other than you need to work on technique. Like @pilotgore, I've opened quite a few people's eyes on what better technique can do with tires. My rule of thumb is you don't need more grippy tires until you're 4 wheel drifting everywhere (as in, a sustained, full throttle power slide - "greasy" moments don' count). I love a solid street tire like the SC3 because they force you to focus on good habits and have plenty of headroom if you overcook it.

Awesome, thanks for the recommendation. I'm definitely not 4 wheel drifting everywhere, only in the 1 or 2 corners a lap that I'm currently focusing on. I definitely don't have the consistency or baseline competency to be able to push limits everywhere.

 

[Egparson202]

@brokenblinker,
Kudos to you for the thoughtful approach you’re taking. Already you’re seeing that there are many opinions on these topics. And the advice being offered all has merit. With respect to the other members who have contributed to the thread, I’ll share a bit of my thought process which may disagree a bit with some of what’s already been provided.

Mods:
Early in our track experience, we’re better served doing things that make the driver faster. We all benefit from instruction and coaching. It’s hard, but direct your time and money toward driver development ahead of car development. That way you’ll be faster and safer no matter what you’re driving.

Safety:
It comes first. The headroom issues being discussed are paramount. If our heads and necks ever take load or impact we may not be the same. To me that means you have to get a lower seating position. Seats and harnesses are your best options here. The reality is that any car that sees time on track and street will have compromises of some sort. The suggestion to swap seats at the track and retain your factory belts is a good one. The QuickFit/harness bar/roll bar/full cage debate is one that requires research and some introspection.

I’ve equipped my car with fixed racing seats, 6 pt harnesses and a roll bar for safety on track. In deference to street safety, I’ve retained the factory belts and airbags. And I didn’t opt for a full containment seat. These are compromises in my setup. Choices that I’m making.

Handling/braking:
A better handling car is a safer car. This is especially true for drivers that test the limits.

Power:
Not until you’re a very accomplished driver.

Recommendations:
Going after things in this order will allow you to progress while managing your exposure to the risks associated with going faster than your skills and experience can support.

Continue to educate yourself so you can make smart choices that fit your values.

 

[brokenblinker]

@brokenblinker,

Safety:
It comes first. The headroom issues being discussed are paramount. If our heads and necks ever take load or impact we may not be the same. To me that means you have to get a lower seating position. Seats and harnesses are your best options here. The reality is that any car that sees time on track and street will have compromises of some sort. The suggestion to swap seats at the track and retain your factory belts is a good one. The QuickFit/harness bar/roll bar/full cage debate is one that requires research and some introspection.

I’ve equipped my car with fixed racing seats, 6 pt harnesses and a roll bar for safety on track. In deference to street safety, I’ve retained the factory belts and airbags for the street. And I didn’t opt for a full containment seat. These are compromises in my setup. Choices that I’m making.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. This is the category in which I feel like it is hardest to find information. Whenever I'm searching I mostly find threads and videos about people trying to swap between the factory seat options. I'd love to know more about how I could manage bolting a seat directly to the floor to gain some headroom, especially if easily swappable back to stock, but I don't have a good sense for how many things work in that situation -> for example how do you get the seating position the correct distance from the pedals, etc.

I know this is up to me to research and find out, but if you have any useful links I'd be hugely appreciative.

 

[Egparson202]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. This is the category in which I feel like it is hardest to find information. Whenever I'm searching I mostly find threads and videos about people trying to swap between the factory seat options. I'd love to know more about how I could manage bolting a seat directly to the floor to gain some headroom, especially if easily swappable back to stock, but I don't have a good sense for how many things work in that situation -> for example how do you get the seating position the correct distance from the pedals, etc.

I know this is up to me to research and find out, but if you have any useful links I'd be hugely appreciative.

There are purpose-built seat mounts for fixed back seats. The combination can significantly lower your seating position, enough that it takes some getting used to both on and off track. This link is to the seat I purchased. The site also offers lots of mounting options. I’ve also found their sales people to be very knowledgeable and forthcoming. However, it’s a shortcut and you will want to search and explore. I don’t have links to many of the resources I found, but ultimately you’ll get there through the right mix of research and networking.

https://competitionmotorsport.com/racetech-rt4100-racing-seat

 

[GTIIIL]

I have the comfort seats and I just finished my second HPDE event at Willow Springs this last weekend. It was a small group, so I got lumped in with a McLaren 720S and a Porsche Turbo S. Needless to say, a fast group. I use this setup for track days and it works remarkably well, not as good as a track seat, but I don't remember anytime I was worried about sliding around in the seat- https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/aftermarket-driver-track-seat.157594/post-3217236. Nice to leave the ventilation on too.

At this event, I did go with a square setup and track alignment and I am really happy I did. Ran the SC2's and the understeer in turn two was almost gone, the car was well balanced in all of the turns. Gave me a lot more confidence in turn eight, too. Well worth the upgrade IMHO.

Sponsored