Financial decision having regrets now

[Garfy]

Electric cars are the future, at the very least because of government regulations concerning ICE engines (in Europe and elsewhere). Unless those regulations change, electric is what will happen going forward. That being said the current crop of electric cars is still at its infancy. Tesla aside most car manufacturers are just releasing their first or second gen electric cars. Plenty of bugs to work out and lessons to learn. I think we should expect a rather large leap in tech, batteries, and range in the coming years. Also the charging network infrastructure is still nascent, which is another concern.

There's indeed a LOT that needs to be done before ICE will be obsolete. EVs are OK for certain lifestyles/purposes. For me, I always need to have my "reserve power" available at all times, whether I've got a full tank of gas or 1/4 tank, which I can get resolved in less than 10 minutes at a gas station. EVs, on the other hand, loses performance capacity as the battery discharges. At 1/4 charge, the vehicle won't have anywhere near the acceleration it had at full charge and resolving that takes a "supercharger" and at least 40-60 minutes (Tesla, not sure about the Mach-e). If you live where I do, it's not anywhere near cheaper than ICE because our electricity is primarily produced in petroleum-fired power plants so our electricity is at least 300% of what it is on the continental U.S. Until they can produce batteries that are lightweight with the storage capacity of current HV packs, they will always be at a disadvantage due to the very high weight load compared to an ICE vehicle. A Tesla Model X weighs over 3 tons while a comparable ICE SUV is just over 2 tons. Not only are we speaking about the vehicle weight itself but higher costs of larger tires needed to support that added weight but heftier suspension components, etc. The key to making EVs more competitive is by having a very lightweight HV battery pack. Then perhaps they'll be more on an even playing field without needing government subsidy (federal rebate/credits to encourage people to buy them).

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[Garfy]

If the price of oil hits 100 a barrel(or higher) this year your decision was the right one and eletric cars will gain value very quickly

That won't matter for us and anywhere that uses petroleum-based electricity generation. As oil prices go up, not only does gasoline prices go up but our electricity costs go up each month as the bill increases due to what they call a "fuel adjustment charge". In a place like where I live, the vehicle that works best overall is a hybrid; but only if you travel 30,000 miles a year and gasoline is over $5 a gallon. Otherwise, the premium you pay to buy a new hybrid in the first place (compared to buying the same type of vehicle that's ICE powered) you won't break even until more than 5 years of use. EVs are an even worse deal if you don't have frequent access to a supercharger station. Charging at home is always an "overnight" situation which isn't good if you had an emergency that required driving a long distance away. That's why most EV buyers are short-trip city type driving rather than someone living out in the rural areas. Also, it's a very good idea to have an ICE vehicle if you own an EV. That way, you always have something that you can use that will always have it's maximum power available under any conditions and it only takes a 5 minute refueling stop if it's low on gas.

 

[Bikeman315]

base car is 80k, and pretty sure the only difference is the powertrain. You still get 600 hp.

Actually the ”Pure” is 480HP at $69,900 (not bad). Step up is the 620hp “Touring“ at $87,500 (GT500 territory). From there you are in ‘S Plaid” land.

https://www.lucidmotors.com/air/configure

 

[03reptile]

Garfy makes some cogent points concerning the negative aspects of an EV. I'll never own one.

 

[Bikeman315]

Garfy makes some cogent points concerning the negative aspects of an EV. I'll never own one.

What about the positive points about owning an EV? Each owner has to decide what works best for them. Could be an EV, could be ICE. Could be both.

Question. If you had only one car and a family of six would a Mustang be your only car? Highly doubtful because it wouldn’t work. And that’s my point.

 

[MIDLYFE]

I sold my 2020 5.0 GT and my 2018 screw F150 for a decent profit and purchased a 2021 MACH E . I have never owned an all electric vehicle and I am unsure if it will hold it's value. when the explorer sport came out I bought one and lost my ass on it. so far i've had the MME for 2 days and it is fantastic for in town day to day dutys. but there is that feeling in my gut that says man did I F#$% up?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/califo...11598468296?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
No need for gasoline. No oil changes. Never having owned one, I'm not sure how much maintenance is involved with evs but there are most definitely some benefits. Now Governors need to start investing heavily in there grid infrastructure if they want their ev dreams to come true. I'm not hopeful.

 

[Bikeman315]

Now Governors need to start investing heavily in there grid infrastructure if they want their ev dreams to come true. I'm not hopeful.

The funding required for a national grid overhaul has to come from the Federal government. The way things are now the chances of Washington agreeing on anything this big is slim and none.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Charging at home is always an "overnight" situation which isn't good if you had an emergency that required driving a long distance away.

It's not, most EV owners charge incrementally. Sure, we can come up with all sorts of specific outlier use cases where you're constantly running down to 10% daily, but - for example - you take your EV out for the evening, let's say hit up a restaurant, come home - you plug in, the battery use is likely replenished in < an hour (again, unless the restaurant is 100 miles away ...)

The "long distance emergency" is sort of the same thing, it's an outlier, sure it __can__ happen, and then you've got a little more logistics involved, assuming you haven't kept the car at around 75% and you're planning on a 10+ hour drive at one time.

Trust me, I get it: two GT convertibles, 4 Corvettes, a 750+ HP Supra, even our previous SUV a DD/RT, hundreds of track hours, rarely miss attending the 24 Hour in person, <on and on ...>, I'm a gearhead/enthusiast through-and-through.

But when you really start thinking about your own personal use case (not a "I heard some guy had to transport a heart and his EV was at 0% and the recipient died ..." kind of hearsay, talk to owners who are also hardcore enthusiasts (so it's not a bunch of "green weenies"), look at your usage model, do some speculative use/driving/trips with ABRP, etc., there's a lot of "I don't like this on a subjective level so I'm going to reverse engineer all sorts of negatives because a GT350 sounds glorious" (the latter which, of course, is true).

 

[shogun32]

The way things are now the chances of Washington agreeing on anything this big is slim and none.

actually the multiple trillions for "infrastructure" bill would have been perfect. Except 90% is pork for favored scams, and only 10% on real things. Flip it around and it might have served a beneficial purpose.

150 miles of range is all that's necessary. Any other use-case EV is inappropriate.

 

[nustang]

Aside from having to buy one new and the $$ - what holds me back is the cost of a new battery. It loses capacity from day one, and at some point range suffers to the point you want to replace it. So for resale .... and at some point one will want to .... buyers will be concerned about battery health, and what it will cost them for a new one. A used Nissan leaf here caught my eye, and then I called the dealer to price a new battery. It was more than the car. Combined, used car and battery were quite upside down on value. Tesla will out perform a GT350 hands down.... range is more than enough for the driving i do. All sounds good. However eventual resale is going to be a heartbreaker I feel, so I cant bring myself to buy one currently.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

Aside from having to buy one new and the $$ - what holds me back is the cost of a new battery. It loses capacity from day one, and at some point range suffers to the point you want to replace it. So for resale .... and at some point one will want to .... buyers will be concerned about battery health, and what it will cost them for a new one. A used Nissan leaf here caught my eye, and then I called the dealer to price a new battery. It was more than the car. Combined, used car and battery were quite upside down on value. Tesla will out perform a GT350 hands down.... range is more than enough for the driving i do. All sounds good. However eventual resale is going to be a heartbreaker I feel, so I cant bring myself to buy one currently.

Nice avatar lmao

 

[shogun32]

However eventual resale is going to be a heartbreaker I feel, so I cant bring myself to buy one currently.

they'll have to give used EV away if it's due for a battery. And even that won't find buyers. The 'used up' battery is hardly like the Ni-Cd of old, there's lots of viable charge-holding capability left, just not of the nature required of a car, let alone a high performance one. Reconditioning technology doesn't really exist currently, even if that was possible. So it's off to the shredders to destroy the cells and try to recycle as much of the ingredients as is practical.

We MUST figure out a way to recycle/re-purpose battery packs and soon.

 

[DCShelby]

“Tesla will out perform a GT350 hands down.”
In a straight line sure, but have one try to hang with the 350 on a two lane twisty mountain road in the summer….nope. The brakes on the Tesla will get cooked and their battery goes down real fast. I’ve had them try to hang with me on Rt33 across the mountains in WV, Seneca Rocks to Elkins…. they give up pretty quickly.

 

[Wildcardfox]

Actually the ”Pure” is 480HP at $69,900 (not bad). Step up is the 620hp “Touring“ at $87,500 (GT500 territory). From there you are in ‘S Plaid” land.

https://www.lucidmotors.com/air/configure

I mentioned the 80k which is the 620hp car. So around the price of a GT350R. It’s nice that there is an even cheaper option.

 

[Chris2020GT500]

“Tesla will out perform a GT350 hands down.”
In a straight line sure, but have one try to hang with the 350 on a two lane twisty mountain road in the summer….nope. The brakes on the Tesla will get cooked and their battery goes down real fast. I’ve had them try to hang with me on Rt33 across the mountains in WV, Seneca Rocks to Elkins…. they give up pretty quickly.

I owned a Model 3 Performance Tesla and yes, they are faster than most cars 0-60 however, from about 50mph and above, they do not have much power. At slower speeds is where the electric cars do shine and perform. The handling is decent however, nothing close to the levels of a Mustang PP1/PP2, GT350 or 500. They are good, but not anywhere near as good as the shocks are the weak point, uneven surfaces they tend to push easily.

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