Fiesta ST vs Focus ST vs Mustang (ST)

[KellisJ2003]

How did you remove the plate bracket? Just drill out the rivets? Did you plug the holes with something?

Yep, just drilled out the rivets. It was kind of a pain in the butt, but well worth the effort. As for the holes, I have left them as-is temporarily until my performance blue color bumper plugs set from bumperplugs.com arrive next week.

So far the car is fantastic. VERY nimble, and the power is almost always there, even in 6th. The entertainment and speaker systems are pretty good as well, definitely good for a car at the ST's overall price point. It isn't a rocket ship, but I feel it's not meant to be. What it's great at is GRIP. You can go wherever you point the wheel, without hesitation. And the color, I just love that blue with the gunmetal wheels.

A few gripes...I am not a huge fan of the added sound inside the cabin at wide open throttle, thanks to the sound symposer. Maybe in my teens it would have been cool, but I would rather it go fast than sound fast, maybe it's just me though. The ride is pretty harsh over rough or uneven surfaces, but that is to be expected. Also, the central arm rest storage box is really crummy, the plastics overall in the cabin aren't the best. But this is all nitpicky things. The guys at Ford put the added cash that you're paying for into the performance aspect of the car, not the interior amenities and materials. And to be honest, the cabin is actually really nice for what you pay!

I'll keep you guys posted of my thoughts on the Fiesta as I continue my ownership. That being said, I can't wait to test drive the EcoBoost Stang when it's released to compare/contrast.

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[eric n]

Would not have been my choice, but it also wasn't my money. It's a great looking little car, I'm sure you're going to enjoy the hell out of it. NOW, what mods do we have planned???

 

[KellisJ2003]

Intake, Tint. That's about it. I like keeping things stock.

 

[eric n]

Reasonable and prudent. SMART!

 

[jgut12]

I'm in Tampa also and will be looking at the ecoboost stang this year! We should meet up once I get my hands on one!

 

[Stuntman]

Congrats on the purchase!

 

[Holyfenix]

So Too add to this topic, I got a very good offer in my inbox for a Fusion Yesterday. Showed my fiance and she was very interested, she has a 2006 that has been in a few accidents (not her fault, literally none of them??), the clear coat was in rough shape up top and really the build quality of the whole car left much to be desired. So I showed her some other cars the Fiesta included and once she saw the ST she was hooked. I told her we could look at it but it was going to be a very different deal than the Fusion. We head to Ford and take a look at a White base optioned Fiesta ST (which is still pretty well optioned) any way, talked about a price I was willing to pay and ended up leaving (4 hrs later) with a brand new Fiesta ST.

It truly is a great little car and reacts like a big go kart. And I was pleasantly surprised at the MPG its capable of when babied. I will still be purchasing a S550 Mustang 5.0 when they come out though. Not nearly fast enough for me. White happens to be one of the colors I like too so we may have two white Ford's sitting in our garage.

Pretty wild turn for someone who until the Refresh in 2011 was staunchly against all mustangs made after the mid 70's and also most Ford vehicles in general besides their Trucks. I am constantly surprised and happy with the way Ford has turned things around and they have made me a true believer (bordering on Fanboy at this point). Keep up the great work Ford and show the world what American Cars are all about.

 

[ilkhan]

Took a test drive in a FoST today. The engine is definitely there. The hatchback is definitely more practical as an only car than a mustang, but RWD and the ecoboost/performance package is a better autox/track-day vehicle. In viewing some of the ST forums, I'm seeing issues without brakes and oil cooking a bit too much. Concerning. Choices choices choices.

 

[Trackaholic]

Took a test drive in a FoST today. The engine is definitely there. The hatchback is definitely more practical as an only car than a mustang, but RWD and the ecoboost/performance package is a better autox/track-day vehicle. In viewing some of the ST forums, I'm seeing issues without brakes and oil cooking a bit too much. Concerning. Choices choices choices.

Regarding brakes, there are very few street cars that have brakes sufficient for track use. Most should be good for autoX, but for big tracks, almost every car will need at least a pad upgrade, often a fluid upgrade, and sometimes a rotor upgrade. Track use is so much more demanding than street use, and there are so few people who actually go to the track, that putting so much effort into brakes that almost no one will appreciate doesn't make sense. It's almost always better to not worry about the state of the OEM brakes and just plan on getting the necessary upgrades.

-T

 

[Alelanza]

So when people say a good deal on the Fiesta ST, how much $ are we talking about?

 

[JoeDogInKC]

Regarding brakes, there are very few street cars that have brakes sufficient for track use. Most should be good for autoX, but for big tracks, almost every car will need at least a pad upgrade, often a fluid upgrade, and sometimes a rotor upgrade. Track use is so much more demanding than street use, and there are so few people who actually go to the track, that putting so much effort into brakes that almost no one will appreciate doesn't make sense. It's almost always better to not worry about the state of the OEM brakes and just plan on getting the necessary upgrades.

-T

What do you think about the 2015 5.0 Performance Pack for track use? I'm getting into Autox, but I'm not ruling anything else out either. I'm thinking the 6-piston Brembo's should be pretty darn good, but I'm curious about the single-pot rears.

 

[Trackaholic]

What do you think about the 2015 5.0 Performance Pack for track use? I'm getting into Autox, but I'm not ruling anything else out either. I'm thinking the 6-piston Brembo's should be pretty darn good, but I'm curious about the single-pot rears.

Rears are much less of an issue because so much of the braking is done by the front wheels due to the weight transfer.

For track use, brakes need to have good thermal mass, but more importantly, good cooling. They need the mass in order to have good stopping power form high speeds, but after a couple hard laps the brakes will reach a steady state temperature, and even massive brakes will be terrible if they don't have good cooling (Motor Trend had brake issues with the Lambo Aventador at Laguna Seca, which is a track known to be tough on brakes, and the Aventador even had carbon ceramics).

One of the benefits of the aftermarket brakes is that they typically have directional vanes, and therefore have optimized pumping through the rotors. I know the brakes on the C7 Z51 package are marginal for track use if you are at a tough track, and that is due to their non-directional pillar design, which does not pump air through the rotors very efficiently. Hopefully the Mustang will have a better rotor design, but even the Vette's brakes are pretty good until you start braking very hard and very late (at least from what I have surmised).

I don't really see a huge benefit in the 6 piston caliper over a good 4 piston design, but it does in theory allow for more even pad pressure.

The nice thing about brakes is that there are several intermediate steps that can be taken to gradually improve performance and fade resistance, such as going to a higher temp pad or going to a higher temp fluid. If you are still having fade problems you can always brake a bit less aggressively or eventually go to a high quality BBK from one of several companies like AP, Stoptech, Brembo, or many others. Not sure how the Mustang calipers work, but one nice thing about some of the BBK calipers is that it makes it very easy to change pads, because usually they can be accessed through the top of the caliper so all you need to do is remove the wheel.

For my Z, I ended up going with a 13" Stoptech BBK for the front wheels, and using stock calipers in the rear. I have gone to slotted rotors in back, but that was because they were cheap and I trashed my stock rotors by no paying enough attention to the pad thickness during a track day and running the brakes down to the backing plates.

I use Performance Friction PFC 97 pads in front for the track and Stoptech pads for the street. In the rear I use the stoptech pads for both street and track (on the OEM calipers).

In summary, I think the PP brakes on the GT will be at worst adequate for the occasional track day, and possibly quite good. Much will depend on how well the cooling was thought out.

-T

 

[on d bit]

I'm interested in price too for the st's. I like them but after seeing base 14 mustang gt sell for as low as 26k, it's hard to justify a 24k st.

 

[valentinoamoro]

Rears are much less of an issue because so much of the braking is done by the front wheels due to the weight transfer.

For track use, brakes need to have good thermal mass, but more importantly, good cooling. They need the mass in order to have good stopping power form high speeds, but after a couple hard laps the brakes will reach a steady state temperature, and even massive brakes will be terrible if they don't have good cooling (Motor Trend had brake issues with the Lambo Aventador at Laguna Seca, which is a track known to be tough on brakes, and the Aventador even had carbon ceramics).

One of the benefits of the aftermarket brakes is that they typically have directional vanes, and therefore have optimized pumping through the rotors. I know the brakes on the C7 Z51 package are marginal for track use if you are at a tough track, and that is due to their non-directional pillar design, which does not pump air through the rotors very efficiently. Hopefully the Mustang will have a better rotor design, but even the Vette's brakes are pretty good until you start braking very hard and very late (at least from what I have surmised).

I don't really see a huge benefit in the 6 piston caliper over a good 4 piston design, but it does in theory allow for more even pad pressure.

The nice thing about brakes is that there are several intermediate steps that can be taken to gradually improve performance and fade resistance, such as going to a higher temp pad or going to a higher temp fluid. If you are still having fade problems you can always brake a bit less aggressively or eventually go to a high quality BBK from one of several companies like AP, Stoptech, Brembo, or many others. Not sure how the Mustang calipers work, but one nice thing about some of the BBK calipers is that it makes it very easy to change pads, because usually they can be accessed through the top of the caliper so all you need to do is remove the wheel.

For my Z, I ended up going with a 13" Stoptech BBK for the front wheels, and using stock calipers in the rear. I have gone to slotted rotors in back, but that was because they were cheap and I trashed my stock rotors by no paying enough attention to the pad thickness during a track day and running the brakes down to the backing plates.

I use Performance Friction PFC 97 pads in front for the track and Stoptech pads for the street. In the rear I use the stoptech pads for both street and track (on the OEM calipers).

In summary, I think the PP brakes on the GT will be at worst adequate for the occasional track day, and possibly quite good. Much will depend on how well the cooling was thought out.

-T

Just wanted to add, the signal to noise ratio on forums is terrible. Your post stands out as one of the better written informing posts I've read. Thanks!

 

[JoeDogInKC]

Just wanted to add, the signal to noise ratio on forums is terrible. Your post stands out as one of the better written informing posts I've read. Thanks!

I agree, thanks Trackaholic!

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