Feedback from BMW HPDE

[2BigPups]

Here is the feedback I got from a recent BMW HPDE event with my Mach 1. My initial thought was to tell them to go f_themselves. Last 3 laps the "instructor" didn't say a word; I asked for input, he said your driving is perfect. Guess I don't have a German car. Oh yeah, the "instructor" insisted I drive the line that worked good for his mid 90's BMW. After spinning, I ignored his suggestions, and made 3 clean runs.

Edited to add the instructor feedback -
" you worked hard today with a handful of a car which only got loose on you once. Your reactions were perfect and the end result was very good." but stayed in Novice after 5 HPDE events with them.

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[tosha]

Sorry, what is the issue with screenshot feedback?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Track brake pads ARE a good idea. With the brembos the stock oads aint too bad but this suggestion checks out

also tracking on your street tires is doable, but ideal. (Depending on what tires your on, this may also check out)

spinning isn’t an issue with the line, its your ability to drive it. Maybe the line wasn’t optimal for a pony car, but are you qualified to judge that, being new? Idk.

Do you usually have a problem with feesback? Your first reaction shouldn’t be that reactive, you know?

 

[EFI]

The org that I usually run with classifies cars based on performance and sets them in one of 12 classes. They are usually pretty accurate with their assessments and cars generally are well placed in their classes. But every once in a while they make special adjustments to a car that's not classed correctly, usually down a class when they think it will be faster than it actually is.

The S550 had such an adjustment in the 2016 season but up a class. Their comments were that it was well beyond their expectation and in the hands of a good driver it would do very well, much above it's perceived stats on paper.

 

[tosha]

The S550 had such an adjustment in the 2016 season but up a class. Their comments were that it was well beyond their expectation and in the hands of a good driver it would do very well, much above it's perceived stats on paper.

that is very true, as well as things provided as feedback by instructor - brakes and tires are two things that completely transform this car feel on the track, I would pick them over any other performance upgrade. stock seats are really comfortable, but at the same time not good for track use. having something like Schroth QuickFit should greatly improve seating. all are valid points of feedback in my opinion, so I'm curious if there is some other reason for " f_themselves" reaction to it.

Spinning because of driving bmw line, really?

 

[EFI]

After spinning, I ignored his suggestions, and made 3 clean runs.

I tried once the BMWCCA org, was not really impressed. Alot of "pricks", not not nearly as much as PCA or the Viper clubs.

There's a few other local orgs in New England that you may have a better time with just sayin'.

 

[Dana Pants]

Ohh man…

Track Night in America and Masstuning are the go-to events for the casual enthusiast in this area. You should try them. If you still leave with a negative impression, then track days just aren’t for you.

FWIW, the “line” is pretty much the same for all cars, but I may change the line intentionally when instructing if I don’t trust a driver to handle their inputs.

BMWCCA doesn’t care one bit what you drive, as their autocross events are less than 50% BMWs at this point and the organizers are wonderful people who also mostly don’t drive BMWs.

 

[tosha]

I tried once the BMWCCA org, was not really impressed. Alot of "pricks", not not nearly as much as PCA or the Viper clubs.

There's a few other local orgs in New England that you may have a better time with just sayin'.

Guess it depends on chapters. my experience with the one local to me is completely opposite - tons of great people, very educational, big focus on safety. aside from bimers, we have at least 4-5 mustangs, porsches, subarus, toyotas, mercs and etc. even a volvo station wagon . yeah, some instructors are better than others, but what can you do. experience is experience, you gain different perspectives by driving with different people. been doing it for 2 years with them so far and not looking to leave.

Not challenging your experience, "your" chapter might be not the greatest out there and not worth your money and effort . but at the same time, the best thing my local Mustang clubs can do is arrange a cars&coffee experience with 10 participants showing up.


Going back to the main topic - do you see anything incorrect or offensive in instructor's recommendation?

 

[mustanghammer]

I think you are confusing line with brake point and or corner entry speed. A smaller and lighter BMW is going to brake later and carry more speed than your mustang. But the proper line for both cars will be the same. My guess is you spun because of entry speed.

I have done allot of road racing in a slower RWD car in mixed class races. The faster RWD cars were driving the same line that I was. I know this because allot of times the faster (heavier) cars were holding me up in turns. The only cars that I race with that have a different line are FWD cars but even their lines eventually intersect the optimal line.

Exceptions can occur when the track is a roval with banked NASCAR style turns or when it rains. Formula cars and sports racers with down force can typically drive places where fendered cars can't - watch the Indy Car/NASCAR races that were held at IMS this year on the same weekend for examples. Also the line used in a wheel to wheel race can be different than the lines used to qualify

Edit... To be fair, its also possible that the instructor they assigned to you sucked. I know a few people that instruct that should not.

 

[WItoTX]

Can you post a video so we can judge?

 

[Radiation Joe]

You can run into instructors that are biased in any club. However, I'd put the BMWCCA instructors close to the top in being oblivious to driving technique and trying to get a driver to copy their idiosyncrasies.
Look at this guy looking to the inside of the hill between 5 and 6 at Laguna. I'm focused on my track out point. He kept pressing the slow-smooth is faster until I slowed enough to please him. I probably dropped 2 seconds a lap to make him happy.
If you strongly disagree, then appease them until they sign you off.
There is no shortage of great instructors in BMWCCA. You just have to know when to stay your own course, which is difficult when you are starting out.

 

[2BigPups]

No video. This was the 5th HPDE event with them and I was getting multiple point bys from other drivers in the novice group. The instructor also let slip that instructors get a trackday discount and they need to keep enough people in the lower run groups so the instructors will keep getting the discounts.

 

[2BigPups]

You can run into instructors that are biased in any club. However, I'd put the BMWCCA instructors close to the top in being oblivious to driving technique and trying to get a driver to copy their idiosyncrasies.
Look at this guy looking to the inside of the hill between 5 and 6 at Laguna. I'm focused on my track out point. He kept pressing the slow-smooth is faster until I slowed enough to please him. I probably dropped 2 seconds a lap to make him happy.
If you strongly disagree, then appease them until they sign you off.
There is no shortage of great instructors in BMWCCA. You just have to know when to stay your own course, which is difficult when you are starting out.

That is exactly what I experienced. He was having me drive a line that made sense to him, but was far different than what the other drivers were doing. I ended up with an impressive amount of other people's rubber on my tires; three friends I was with had next to none.

 

[Radiation Joe]

No video. This was the 5th HPDE event with them and I was getting multiple point bys from other drivers in the novice group. The instructor also let slip that instructors get a trackday discount and they need to keep enough people in the lower run groups so the instructors will keep getting the discounts.

This was your 5th event in the novice group? I take back what I stated previously. You need to start listening to your instructors if you want to improve. I believe you need to develop some basic skills before you start bashing instructors. I had a competition license when I questioned my instructor's lead.

 

[2BigPups]

This was your 5th event in the novice group? I take back what I stated previously. You need to start listening to your instructors if you want to improve. I believe you need to develop some basic skills before you start bashing instructors. I had a competition license when I questioned my instructor's lead.

It was my 5th event with BMW, 14th event overall. When told I was staying in their novice group so instructors could get a discount is when I said WTF.

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