F-150 Manifold Testing/Journey

[v8hgt]

I had a lot of issues with false knock when torque limiting was disabled on standard manifold. If anything the f150 manifold will increase potential torque so if your tune removes torque limiting you could be seeing the same false knock pulling timing. AED does my tune and they ended up changing the knock sensor gain to filter out the noise rather than re introduce torque limiting as I love the huge torque gains in the lower gears.

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[jcart953]

The pp2 tune uses per cylinder knock strategy. It was definitely working you just wouldn't see it in the knock PID being logged.

Rob like other custom tuners use the stock Global knock strategy. The PID being logged shows this.

The pp2 low rpm timing is aggressive because of their improved knock strategy. It does not change VCT from stock. One major issue with this is low RPM ford starts with the exhaust advanced and slowly retards it to a peak at mid range and then advances it in the higher RPMs. I can only guess the low RPM advance position is emissions related. Having the exhaust closing advanced reduces the length of the power stroke and reduces torque. Robs tune improves this by having the exhaust start at a peak in the lower RPMs and advance only when needed. Headers would further take advantage of the VCT improvement. He could be keeping the low rpm timing conservative while you go through revisions and it will increase later on. It could also just be a way to keep risk of mid RPM knock low and make sure your high rpm power is always there where you want it. Most tuners don't change things less than 3k RPMs as it does show on dyno runs or at the track. It would mostly be a change in the way the engine feels in higher gears while cruising, which is not usually an area people are looking for more power as they will usually find it more beneficial to downshift.
Robs tune the fuel trims are not as dialed in as the pp2 tune. This makes any improvement in load inaccurate and difficult to compare improvments.
Excluding the improvement to the transmission which can make up a lot, At this revision I would choose the pp2 tune over Robs tune from a engine only stand point and just make sure to use top tier premium fuel. Its fuel being dialed in better and using a better knock strategy are very important for optimal engine power and engine life.

Thanks for taking the time to write this information. It is very much appreciated. I can follow through on most stuff you say until I reach the fuel trims. I been looking at both logs and see them around .9X-1.04 on the PP2 tune and .9X-1 on Robs. If I'm understanding correctly the closer to 1 for the trims the better. Among both logs they seem them be between +- 1 to 5. If the readings were .8X or .7X i could see better. I feel like I'm missing that ahha moment. Is there some point in Rob's tune you can use as an example. I'm trying to train my eye for this type of stuff lol.

I did however flash back to the PP2 as I await a response back from the tuner on update/issues/revisions/ etc. Hopefully hear something back soon.

I had a lot of issues with false knock when torque limiting was disabled on standard manifold. If anything the f150 manifold will increase potential torque so if your tune removes torque limiting you could be seeing the same false knock pulling timing. AED does my tune and they ended up changing the knock sensor gain to filter out the noise rather than re introduce torque limiting as I love the huge torque gains in the lower gears.

Been using the same 93 Sunoco on all runs and saw more knock stuff. So I'll shoot the tuner over a inquiry about this feature.

 

[markmurfie]

- Select an RPM range on both logs that is equal. I choose 2750 to 7000.
- Select the fuel trim PIDs for one bank.
- Click the line to "solo" it on its own scale on the left.
- Do this for all lines, If lines where already solo, unsolo and resolo to rescale.
- Compare the max and min of the scales.
- compare where lines are averagely.

In the pp2 tune the red line(throttle) is about where the average of the short term fuel trims are. They are .99.

In Robs tune the average is about .975, you can compare the Long term trims and see robs has learned the 3% and may be learning more to get the short terms closer to 1. The pp tune has learned 2% LTFT, but the short trims are right around 1. To me this says Robs tune is 6% off while pp2 tune is 2%. 2% is acceptable. 6% is acceptable to some tuners. All depends on what your comfortable with. the fact the short term max in Robs tune don't go over 1 says to me its too rich. Just for clarification the ECU is having to remove 6% fuel to maintain the commanded lambda. you are not actually 6% rich. The closer your tune is to reality and the less the ecu has to work the better the car will be.

 

[Boggus]

I would suggest that during the install - it would be a great time to swap your clutch line and remove/plug your sound tube if you are inclined to. Access to those areas is readily available with the manifold off.

 

[jcart953]

Aha lol. Omg thanks so much.I read it several times but I think I get what your coming from right now.

I did ask Rob about the trims and he said it may need time to learn the trims and the MAF curve was from the FRPP so it shouldn't be far off. I'm not sure how long the trims need to "learn" but I'll wait like 1week and log another run. To whoever asked before yes torque limiting was disabled.

Thanks again Mark for taking the time out! I'll report back at another time. Rob has been in constant communication about my concerns and has been extremely quick to follow-up.

 

[Volstang]

What is the "trick" to unplugging the two white connecors on the back of the intake?

 

[Boggus]

Red locking tab slides down, then press on the clip release and disconnect the plug from the sensor. The harness is also plastic clipped into the manifold (just to keep the harness out of the way).

I used a pick tool to push(release) the red lock tab on the harnesses as I couldn’t do it with my fingernails. It’s very similar to the MAF sensor clip/locking tab configuration.

Been doing data log tunes with my tuner to maximize the intake. Car runs good and power comes on very good. Love it.

 

[Volstang]

Thanks for the detailed info Boggus! Looking forward to getting mine installed.

 

[jcart953]

Been doing data log tunes with my tuner to maximize the intake. Car runs good and power comes on very good. Love it.

Who's tunning your car?

 

[Boggus]

Unleashed, Torrie

 

[jcart953]

Is he changing your shift points? What's your rev limiter set to?

 

[gameovergt]

I'm 50/50 on trying this mod. Ugg. Even pm'd a member about getting theirs for a great price, then backed out (sorry). My car will probably never see a drag strip. Torque coming in lower would be awesome.

 

[Boggus]

Do it! I never have and will never track mine. I have a GT PP and the added TQ is awesome.

 

[NemesisOfZod]

Anyone in the Houston area who has done this and is willing to help out someone who hasn't? I just won an auction for the IM and am gung ho to knock it out, since I DD My car.

 

[moreause]

I'm still wondering if its the intake or the tune that give more torque

i have the ford stage 2 tune and torque i way better ... just wondering if the intake would give some more

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