Electric for everyone - the impossible dream

[Fly2High]

Everyone needs both sides of the conversation to make a personal decision.

Questions I would like to be answered by a pro electric are:

1. electric/ tree huggers people are not pushing for everyone to stop buying SUVs/Trucks and go for a less drag, lighter car. This would also reduce emissions today. Why are they still buying them and why haven't they attacked those vehicles? Could you imagine if today's engineering was in cars of the 80's and 90's? I think oil companies would have something to say about that.

2. Instead of pushing for Congestion pricing, reduce the price of a train ticket from the suburbs to that of a city subway. So cheap that it would be financially stupid to drive in. Wouldn't this help those lesser income groups? How's about doing away with overtime in gov't jobs and instead higher enough people to cover the hours required. Paying someone a regular wage is far cheaper than paying time and a half. Might reduce the need for congestion pricing.

3. You promote urbanization so everyone walks? What about the impact of all that concrete you will be pouring? Last I heard, green grass and trees help the environment. How will you get to the great outdoors? Will we need trains to take you to mountain hiking/biking trails and all the great outdoor spots? If there are fewer cars, won't the price to operate one to get to your destination go up, not down making the outdoors for the rich only (sounds like Robert Moses).

4. What do you do if you get everyone to stay put? How will they get to work and spend money in other places? I would expect fewer to travel and what will that do to places that live for tourism.

5. Why aren't they pushing for work from home? 39% worked from home over the pandemic and the environment did show a change. Give companies an incentive to allow more work form home except that would hurt the urban economy and negatively impact the desire for urbanization and a less driving culture?

Finally, even with Long Island traffic, I love to drive. Going anywhere is a pleasure. Why would I want to ride in dirty disgusting public transportation where a portion of the population would rather destroy than improve or maintain it. If we had trains and buses like those in Europe, ok not all are great, then that might help. With personal transportation, I get to go when I wish and in a degree of safety. It will take a lot to increase the availability of public transportation. Even now, NYC has you wait 15-20 mins between rides. Also, I do not see the number of cops and infrastructure to suggest that will ever get to a point where I would feel safe at all hours of the day.

When a see a pro-EV person that lives in the suburbs driving a gas guzzler with a sticker or lawn poster asking to save the planet, all I can think is hypocrite. If they are not willing to live by example, why should it fall on the rest of us?

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[Balr14]

Here's two things that haven't been mentioned:

1. Tesla is working on wireless charging. They just bought a company that specializes in that. Wireless has almost twice the capacity as wired charging, so that much faster. Plus it can be deployed where multiple vehicles have access to it at once, like on a city street.

2. You all are whining about the government being responsible for EV, when in reality it's the companies as well. Electric motors offer huge advantages over ICE, no maintenance, no drive train, no transmission, design freedom and adaptation of 48 or 72 volt systems, which are sorely needed to support the electronics in today's cars.

 

[kz]

2. You all are whining about the government being responsible for EV, when in reality it's the companies as well.

Ironically if not for Tesla and Elon - so currently beloved by certain people - we would never end up in this place - at least yet. They showed the viability of the EVs.

 

[KingKona]

The US has neither the electrical power generation or distribution capacity for more than 5% EVs on the road. California already restricts charging on hot days!!!

EVs are a dead end, toys for those that can afford them.

 

[Balr14]

The US has neither the electrical power generation or distribution capacity for more than 5% EVs on the road. California already restricts charging on hot days!!!

That is certainly true.... for now! But, the adaption of EVs is a long process... many years. It will evolve over time. All of the predictions of doom and gloom will never come true... except to those who can't accept change.

 

[K4fxd]

All of the predictions of doom and gloom will never come true... except to those who can't accept change.

It has nothing to do with accepting change. If BEV's are so great we will flock to them. The problem is the mandates.

 

[Strokerswild]

Why does everyone casually veer off the actual problem area with EV’s???? It’s not the batteries, it’s not the weight. It’s the main fucking factor that will not work as a majority of travel until MANY nuclear plants are built. The SOURCE of this energy is going to be the bottleneck if we ever even THINK of EV’s holding more than 20% of this country’s vehicles registered on the roads. Not to mention the power stations, lines etc that can’t handle an entire neighborhood with all households pulling 35-40A+ of electrical current all night long.

I won’t even get into how much you’ll feel like a complete muppet in the northern states with mountains and sub zero winters trying to drive your toaster more than 50 miles once per day.

This, particularly the bold.

I saw a news blurb last night where they just got an electric school bus for one of the twin cities suburbs, and the guys that they were talking to were receptive to it, but know up front range will be sketchy in the winter and will quickly determine the effective (and safe) operating area.

I'd welcome torture testing an EV here in MN during one of our winters. Real world commuting in -20 (and sometimes colder) temps, and dealing with all the road slop. Since I live in a rural area, I can test how well they fare in deep snow too.

 

[KingKona]

That is certainly true.... for now! But, the adaption of EVs is a long process... many years. It will evolve over time. All of the predictions of doom and gloom will never come true... except to those who can't accept change.

There is no doom and gloom. There can be no large-scale adoption of EVs, it's not possible. That is fact.

And in case you think it's just a matter of time until that changes, the US electrical power production capacity has actually gone down in the last 20-30 years, and that downward trend will continue. The EPA isn't allowing new power plants to be built.

Reality just is. It doesn't care about useless platitudes and wishful thinking. Facts matter, emotions don't.

It's not the cars. It's not the batteries. Those aren't the issue.

 

[shogun32]

will follow the same development trajectory as PC's, phones

Nope not even close. Computer development was not trying to violate the laws of physics nor rules of economics. Cell phone battery tech has gone basically nowhere.

Chip and fab have hit a brick wall. Feature size reduction are so mind boggling expensive the only way to recoup costs is to ship billions of devices.

Ev does not have the scale nor consumer appetite to finance progress, assuming meaningful progress is even attainable. It's not. There is no magic tech that will revolutionize energy storage. It's a dead end.

There is zero pressing reason to pursue ev technology except as idle curio for the rich.

 

[Fly2High]

you all are whining about the government being responsible for EV, when in reality it's the companies as well. Electric motors offer huge advantages over ICE, no maintenance, no drive train, no transmission, design freedom and adaptation of 48 or 72 volt systems, which are sorely needed to support the electronics in today's cars.

Yes, the motor is simple but the cooling system is far more complicated. That is the cooling system for your energy storage. Gas storage is simple by comparison, orders of magnitude simpler. The number of computers in an electric are far greater than in an ICE. What you remove in mechanical simplicity in an ICE you replace with IC chips and software in an EV.

the only difference is that when you have a coolant leak in an ICE, you simply overheat. In a BEV, you can catch fire. An overheating battery is no joke.

 

[Fly2High]

Quite interesting this was posted on MSN:

The Biggest Problems With Electric Cars That Still Haven't Been Solved


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...n&cvid=ae74e78a90864d948a1c0b5a3c315fd7&ei=27



10 Things Electric Car Owners Keep Quiet About

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...n&cvid=ae74e78a90864d948a1c0b5a3c315fd7&ei=48


IN the last one, this was troubling to me:

Straight-Line Speed Doesn’t Translate To Spirited Performance
Electric car owners aren’t quiet about the instant torque, which translates to incredible acceleration off the line. The Tesla Model S Plaid is one of the quickest cars in the world, with a 0-60 sprint time of 2.5 seconds. That said, when turning laps and facing curves, most EVs fall behind traditional cars. Still, a lightweight car like the Mazda Miata can be much more fun to toss through the curves than the Tesla Model S Plaid.

Some automakers have built electric vehicles for specific environments to make them extremely fun and useful. The GMC Hummer EV is an amazing off-road machine with its Crab Walk feature, ground clearance, amazing off-road qualities, and incredible power.

 

[KingKona]

Yeah....people haven't gotten themselves educated on the serious safety issues with EVs.

I sure as fuck wouldn't park one in a garage. And they do a great job of burning out auto carrying cargo ships.

 

[Balr14]

It has nothing to do with accepting change. If BEV's are so great we will flock to them. The problem is the mandates.

Mandates are an objective. They usually change to reflect reality. RELAX!

 

[sk47]

Here's two things that haven't been mentioned:

1. Tesla is working on wireless charging. They just bought a company that specializes in that. Wireless has almost twice the capacity as wired charging, so that much faster. Plus it can be deployed where multiple vehicles have access to it at once, like on a city street.

2. You all are whining about the government being responsible for EV, when in reality it's the companies as well. Electric motors offer huge advantages over ICE, no maintenance, no drive train, no transmission, design freedom and adaptation of 48 or 72 volt systems, which are sorely needed to support the electronics in today's cars.

Hello; In a different thread the BEV subject has been discussed quite a lot. One associated aspect of BEV's that will be needed to help make them somewhat cleaner will be the electric fuel production will have to be moved away from coal, oil and natural gas. Outside of nuclear the main candidates are wind and solar.
The wind does not always blow and the sun does not shine at night. So extensive storage of excess solar and wind will need to happen. I have been in favor of massive flywheels. Some favor huge battery packs purchased and maintained by utilities.
What was discovered some months ago is the plan to use the privately owned BEV's as grid backup when needed. The idea appears to be that we will have our personal BEV plugged in to charge and that some of that charge can be taken as needed by the various grids.
Makes sense in a way as when there are many millions of BEV's around and each has a high capacity battery pack in them. Just take from that stored energy source when needed. That way the grid does not have to deal with the pesky problem and cost of building up energy storage systems.

I will be against such invasion of my privately owned BEV should I ever have one. My plan would be to unplug the BEV as soon as it was charged. However, with wireless charging they could freely take as they please.

 

[K4fxd]

Mandates are an objective. They usually change to reflect reality. RELAX!

Problem is the car companies are gearing up for the mandates. If in 2029 we wise up and repeal the mandates it will be a cluster F.... The ICE lines will have been dismantled and the electric cars will sit unsold.

The mandates are a good way to bankrupt the auto industry.

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