Electric for everyone - the impossible dream

[Qcman17]

Also, electric cars are harder on tires, which need to be replaced more often. Another factor from all that weight is wear and tear on roads. More maintenance will be required to keep them in good shape. Imagine if big rigs get outfitted with electric, how much heavier will those monsters be ? (if long haul trucks could even be fitted in a useful way)

EV's are harder on tires I suspect due to the massive torque they produce essentially off 0 RPM's and perhaps their weight. As for pavement stresses, no, EV cars will not be a factor on that. My work is focused on pavement (asphalt) design and cars are nearly ignored in calculations for pavement life whereas the truck's axles are the overall focus. It comes down to Equivalent Single Axle Loads of which trucks and buses are the primary owners.

But yes, heavier trucks will have an effect without some minor pavement design changes whereas the cars will not.

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[K4fxd]

California will support 80% electrification if their current Grid cannot support the current demand.

They think the electric fairy will wave her wand and magically fix the coming problems.

 

[Bikeman315]

What are the incentives and or subsidies?

$14.7 billion in federal subsidies
$5.8 billion in state-level incentives.

That’s per year and on top of the billions in profits they bring every year.

 

[2016S550]

$14.7 billion in federal subsidies
$5.8 billion in state-level incentives.

That’s per year and on top of the billions in profits they bring every year.

Don’t you just love a corrupt lobbied system of government???????

 

[Hoofer]

I am not trying to be rude here. Hopefully it doesn't come across that way, and apologize in advance if it does.

If you get tax breaks, you are being subsidized. Did you get tax money back last year? Subsidized. Do you get a child tax credit? Subsidized. Write off your mortgage interest? Subsidized. Small businesses (like gas stations) get to write off certain expenses. They are subsidized.

We can use whatever words we want to describe something, but it's all a subsidy.

I am just okay with drawing the line around EV's (To a certain extent). Just like I am okay with paying for national forests, parks, and other public property open to all.

You need some time to think about your response.

You've failed to answer my question.

Then to say "tax break" means I'm being subsidized?
Please put your glass of Flavor-Aid down.

 

[K4fxd]

$14.7 billion in federal subsidies
$5.8 billion in state-level incentives.

I asked what they are, not how much. I'll bet (I looked into it) it is depreciation and other tax write offs that all businesses get.

 

[RagmopInKona]

- "What political affiliation is the Manhattan Institute?

The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is an extremely conservative, corporate-funded, New York-based policy group. The Manhattan Institute was founded by former CIA director William J. Casey in 1978."

- "Who is Mark P. Mills?

Mark P. Mills, a physicist, is a Manhattan Institute senior fellow, a faculty fellow at Northwestern University, and partner in Montrose Lane, an energy-tech venture fund."

- "What is Montrose Lane?

Montrose Lane, LP operates as a venture capital firm. The Firm invests in software and energy technology companies of early oil and gas industry adoption and growth capital requirement. Montrose Lane serves investors in the United States."

He has plenty of reasons for his "opinion"...

Who cares if the subject is correct.
We can not provide enough electricity EVER.
Mostly because the ones that push for electric vehicles and heat are the same ones that boycott any wind farm , hydro , or nuke plant . They have groups they fund to tie these projects up in court for decades.
The N.I.M.B.Y. is the calling card for these righteous people that push this crap on "others".
Team blue are the poster boy for " Do as I say, not as I do"

 

[K4fxd]

As for a “big reset” for EV infrastructure based on the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act’s $7.5 billion in subsidies to fund “thousands” of on-road chargers: consider the math. The all-EV future will need to replace most, if not all, of America’s roughly 1 million gasoline pumps located at the existing 145,000 filling stations. That will require over $100 billion of superchargers, not counting the costs of electrical infrastructure upgrades. The learning curve from future high-volume production, as well as new technologies for superchargers, will shave only a little of that staggering sum. None of these underlying economic impacts is changed by rearranging ownership models for filling stations, whether at supermarkets, shopping malls, parking garages, or automakers building their own, following the Tesla example.


The calculus of overall societal costs for an all-EV future also requires including the dramatic expansion of power generation and long-distance transmission. Replacing all the gasoline used in America with electricity would require at least 50% more electricity generation than exists or is planned, along with an even greater increase in electric power distribution. Such power-plant and grid requirements represent multitrillion-dollar levels of spending

 

[K4fxd]

An analysis from the Boston Consulting Group puts the utility grid improvement costs—never mind power generation—at $1,700–$5,800 per EV put on the market. Do the math: that’s $400 billion to over $1 trillion for an all-EV American car fleet. While those costs would be divorced from car prices, it would constitute “sticker shock” for household electricity or tax bills

More facts from the above linked paper

 

[RagmopInKona]

I asked what they are, not how much. I'll bet (I looked into it) it is depreciation and other tax write offs that all businesses get.

Electric gets subsidies and incentives.
Oil gets costly regulations and then the fed throws them a bone of subsidies that are 5% of what the fed already took from them through regulations. That isn't subsidies that is a small refund .
If electric is so great it shouldn't need any.
The fact that most of them pay nothing to fund the repair of roads and bridges like all ice do at the pump is going to only make our infrastructure even worse.
Electric vehicles are awesome for the team blue and team greenies as the emissions are N.I.M.B.Y.
Zero emissions my ass.

 

[RagmopInKona]

An analysis from the Boston Consulting Group puts the utility grid improvement costs—never mind power generation—at $1,700–$5,800 per EV put on the market. Do the math: that’s $400 billion to over $1 trillion for an all-EV American car fleet. While those costs would be divorced from car prices, it would constitute “sticker shock” for household electricity or tax bills

More facts from the above linked paper

TEAM blue is known for rubber stamping things as long as the cost is put on others and not them or at least not them alone.
In 2026 when everyone's Electric bill is 400% higher than it is now. Will they still love this idea or will the honeymoon be over and want a divorce.

 

[K4fxd]

Will they still love this idea or will the honeymoon be over and want a divorce.

Let's hope they want a divorce before they destroy the oil industry.

 

[Mach VII]

Who cares if the subject is correct.
We can not provide enough electricity EVER.
Mostly because the ones that push for electric vehicles and heat are the same ones that boycott any wind farm , hydro , or nuke plant . They have groups they fund to tie these projects up in court for decades.
The N.I.M.B.Y. is the calling card for these righteous people that push this crap on "others".
Team blue are the poster boy for " Do as I say, not as I do"

QFT You truly don't care about the source of your 'information'?

 

[RagmopInKona]

Let's hope they want a divorce before they destroy the oil industry.

That is the neat part , this farce will also make everything they touch,buy ,use prices go up 300% as oil is used in almost everything but without the volume of scale of fuel subsiding the cost of production of crude to what they use it for .
They are crying about inflation now. They ain't seen anything yet.
Short sightedness will bury us all into the poor house . Morons.

 

[RagmopInKona]

QFT You truly don't care about the source of your 'information'?

I care but if the article has a point whey does it matter?
Do you care that our news media is in bed with team blue ? Like have you researched who owns them and who they happen to be married to or family of that are in the capital? Or is that ok because it is your team?
I get my information from all sources and all sides of the aisles or biases or what have you. Only way you can make an informed decision on anything .
Those that automatically dismiss an article because they are not on thier team are why we are in the mess we are in in this country and the world .
But as always YMMV

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