e85 questions

[engineermike]

What year car is it?

Sponsored

 

[tmilliner24]

2021. Getting ready to order the Wengerd returnless system and tune. I think I’ve read some of your information on this system. Are you of the opinion that it is capable?

 

[RMoeslein]

Flex is literally anything between pump gas and e85...

i have both e85 and 93 tunes. Yes there is a change.

 

[robvas]

i have both e85 and 93 tunes. Yes there is a change.

Great, he's not asking about either of those. He asking about a flex tune. Which lets you run anything in between.

Another question, once I make the switch and get the flex tune

 

[engineermike]

2021. Getting ready to order the Wengerd returnless system and tune. I think I’ve read some of your information on this system. Are you of the opinion that it is capable?

The GT500 fuel module is amazing and running dual FPDMs with full PCM control is the way to go. A few things concern me about the setup in question: 1) You lose diagnostics on the 2nd FPDM so if the pump/wiring/FPDM fail then you don't know it until it's too late, 2) I don't think they include a proper fuel filter, and 3) there is an issue in the GT500 bucket where it won't pull fuel over from the passenger's side saddle with the GT internal plumbing and I don't know if they've properly addressed it.

As for flex tuning, the Gen3+ PCM has excellent logic for managing flex fuel. You can float borderline timing, boost, and dozens of other parameters with learned ethanol. Many tuners miss the necessary parameters to make it work, namely because HPT never defined them, while many other tuners don't fully exploit the capabilities of Ford's flex logic. If they're relying on knock advance when running ethanol or have cold starting issues, those are tell-tales the flex tune is half-baked.

 

[tmilliner24]

The GT500 fuel module is amazing and running dual FPDMs with full PCM control is the way to go. A few things concern me about the setup in question: 1) You lose diagnostics on the 2nd FPDM so if the pump/wiring/FPDM fail then you don't know it until it's too late, 2) I don't think they include a proper fuel filter, and 3) there is an issue in the GT500 bucket where it won't pull fuel over from the passenger's side saddle with the GT internal plumbing and I don't know if they've properly addressed it.

As for flex tuning, the Gen3+ PCM has excellent logic for managing flex fuel. You can float borderline timing, boost, and dozens of other parameters with learned ethanol. Many tuners miss the necessary parameters to make it work, namely because HPT never defined them, while many other tuners don't fully exploit the capabilities of Ford's flex logic. If they're relying on knock advance when running ethanol or have cold starting issues, those are tell-tales the flex tune is half-baked.

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time explaining this. I will discuss these items with Wengerd and see if he has addressed them. I have a lot to learn about e85 and fuel systems.

 

[5.0_Lojos]

Just wondering where boosted (ess) guys get their e85. Do you trust pump fuel and if so what station/brand? Looking to move up from my 93 and know nothing about the do's and don'ts of e85. Getting ready to purchase a returnless fuel system and injectors from Wengerd.

I was facing the same delima and I just pulled the trigger and did it. Its probably best thing to do. Now, my car isn't a daily driver it does consume about 20% more fuel I believe is the %.

 

[Wolfys11]

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time explaining this. I will discuss these items with Wengerd and see if he has addressed them. I have a lot to learn about e85 and fuel systems.

Let us know his responses, i am likely going this route over summer with his system as well

 

[NightmareMoon]

Downsides are ethanol is MUCH less dense so expect fuel mileage to go down to like %60 of normal mileage.

Dont let it sit in the tank. Water accumulates in the lines. My car sat for a few months and there was quite a lot of water in the lines after 4 or so months.

Ethanol is hell oil longevity - change your oil like 2x as offen.

Finally, most of the E85 is 85% ethanol (which is all effectively the same quality) but the 15% left is *low* quality gas. Thats the difference between E85R and E85 is the 15%. Generally still worth it, if you dont mind having to fill up on your way to filling up. The engine loves it, just needs a bigger gas tank.

I carried a couple syringes and an empty gatorade bottle around to test the ethanol content which was awkward to say the least.

 

[diambo4life]

I run OnCue E85 and I have done so in multiple boosted vehicles (Mitsubishis and Fords) in the past 20+ years. Never had to test it. Ever. At my local RS Fuels gas station, the employee there routinely posts in our local FB group the CoA when they get a new batch of pump E (they even have E100 at the pump) and it's always 80%+ E content even in the winter. My Mustang has an installed ethanol sensor that I plan to finally setup the hardware to detect E content just as a datapoint however. I run E85 all the time even in the winter time and my car starts perfectly fine even in 40 degree weather. My old Whipple F150 that was tuned by Oz also started up in 30 degree weather perfectly with E. I have no reason to even run pump gas in my Mustang unless I had to travel out of town beyond the driving range of my gas tank and didn't have access to E85 enroute.

 

[tmilliner24]

I went ahead and purchased the Wengerd returnless fuel system last night. Wengerd got back to me and said he has taken care of any starvation issues with his system. Thanks to all that chimed in with info. It was much needed. Now that I know I’m going e85 with a flex tune on an ESS 120 pulley, should I go fic1000 or id1050x injectors? Is the step up in price for the 1050’s warranted?

 

[robvas]

should I go fic1000 or id1050x injectors? Is the step up in price for the 1050’s warranted?

Ask Wengerd which he prefers. Always ask your tuner.

 

[Wolfys11]

Ask Wengerd which he prefers. Always ask your tuner.

This^
However i usually hear the 1050s are worth it in every time i hear this question

 

[robvas]

This^
However i usually hear the 1050s are worth it in every time i hear this question

Yea, assuming they match your horsepower goals I don't think anyone is going to advise against the ID's

The FIC or DW's are a little bit cheaper, but you don't want to end up being the guy that buys all the parts before talking to the tuner, and when you finally do, they tell you they don't want to tune it unless you buy different parts.

 

[Wolfys11]

Yea, assuming they match your horsepower goals I don't think anyone is going to advise against the ID's

The FIC or DW's are a little bit cheaper, but you don't want to end up being the guy that buys all the parts before talking to the tuner, and when you finally do, they tell you they don't want to tune it unless you buy different parts.

Do 1050s on gen3 support 900whp on e85? I thought they did with supplemental di

Sponsored