Downshifting

[HKusp]

Opinions are like assholes. There seem to be plenty of both around here lately.

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[BLACKMACH1NE]

You can never downshift. I trade my car in every time I make it through the gears.

 

[526 HRSE]

Any downshift is adding wear. The faster the engine is spinning, the more wear you introduce. You said "In all scenarios" it is better. But is it really better when you are simply rolling to a stop at a light? Nope, just throw it in neutral and slow the car down with, you know, the brakes. Rev matching isn't even necessary unless you are pushing the car with the intent/need to match the engine speed to the drivetrain, for the reasons I already mentioned. It is not for slowing the car down.

Since you seem to be the one confused about how to actually drive a manual, and what different techiques are for, give these guys a call and talk with one of the instructors about this topic.
https://www.fordperformanceracingschool.com/

I was there just last week, and several of the "I've been driving manuals for decades" people attending made the same comment, and the instructors quickly pointed out to them that they had been doing it wrong.

I have a feeling, you can't drive for shit.

 

[SheepDog]

I have a feeling, you can't drive for shit.

Thanks Dad, I'll try and do better. I have a feeling that your reading comprehension level is that of a 10 year old, and probably can't absorb the information being presented. I'll be in California at the end of May. How about we meet at Willow Springs, and I'll show you how do drive that grabber blue turd you own?

 

[Snellemin]

Not wanting to step on the other thread about the downshifting auto guy, I was brought up
to think downshifting my 6 speed manual was harmless as long as it was done in a sane manner.
Is there any evidence to the contrary?
(links)?

I've had manual vehicles since '92. Been downshifting ever since. I even downshift my automatics. Brakes aren't enough sometimes, so engine braking is a must for me.
I've even downshifted and locked up the rear tires, in both my automatic and manual cars/suv's. Clutches are wear items, so I don't think much about it. You have to pay to play is how I look at it.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

I have owned nothing but manual cars and trucks for 52 years. The only automatics I have driven have been my wife’s cars. In my entire driving career I have replaced one clutch in my ‘01 Dodge Diesel that I tow an 11K RV with and it is equipped with an exhaust brake at 186k. Not ever gonna sell that truck.

I know, I know the 10R80 is superior to the MT-82D4 or the Tremec, but I will give up the drag strip to one for the simple and pure joy of “driving” my machine. There is a connection to the machine that comes from a manual that an auto does not do for me.

I have driven many Mercedes Benz and their autos are fine, maybe I need a Porsche or McLaren to find the right one? For me, it’s a manual. I like the connection. Can’t explain it to ya if ya don’t know. Kinda like trying to teach a youngster how to use mirrors if they have only ever driven a car with a backup camera.

It just may go the way of hitching a horse and driving a buggy. And I intend to go with it.

 

[Paris MkVI]

. . .rev matching is really only necessary when you are at 8,9,10/10th's.

I agree with the above. But even in every-day traffic it is still fun. I've been rev-match downshifting (in dry conditions) for many years. It's part of the joy of driving, every single day.

I do restrict this sort of thing to dry conditions, allowing for the reality of traffic and sharing the road safely with others. That's just me. YMMV.

I drove my previous Mustang for nearly 15 years and the current one will be 10 years old in November. Both still had/have original clutches and happy transmissions.

I look forward to getting in her every single time.

 

[Johnny maverick]

I think the only reason there is rev matching on these cars is for ford. It protects the driveline from damage that they would have to warranty for the people that don't know how to drive a stick. Also it protects the same people from spinning their car out and ending up in a ditch ( which they would blame the car not the driver). It's the same reason they install anti lock brakes traction control and collision avoidance. Dumb drivers.
OP Row those gears.

 

[Skye]

I've been driving manuals for a while, several brands of vehicles and transmission types, sanely downshifting with all of them. Not through every gear all the way down to 2nd or 1st, but often from the current gear down one or two for engine braking.

I've experienced two transmission-related failures. The first, a Ranger: the slave cylinder failed around 75,000 mi / 120,000 km. The truck was sold at 113,000 mi with the original clutch in-tact. The second, a Tacoma: throwout bearing failure at 109,000 / 174,400 km. In the latest break, the clutch was replaced while the trans was out; the original was found to have about 25% left on the plate.

For all vehicles, the transmissions, driveshafts, U-joints and diffs were original, never needing anything other than fluid changes or grease.

Each of us have different vehicles and drive in different manners under sometimes unique conditions. Like brake pads, driving style is a contributing factor to wear. But I'd think in-general, if downshifting a MT was detrimental to the drivetrain, that would have trended out, we'd be reporting those failures or excess wear as a result of here?

There is one negative reference to downshifting in the Owner's Manual, "Note: Do not downshift into first (1) when your vehicle is moving faster than 15 mph (24 km/h). This damages the clutch." (2022 Manual, printed page 164).

For an MT, there is nothing else related to downshifts, other than the Rev Match feature and what it does. For an AT, there are multiple references, most having to do with how the trans works in different modes.

YMMV.

 

[Cobra Jet]

What’s all this “rev matching”, “throttle blipping” and mindFockery thought process BS for how or when to downshift/upshift nonsense?

Be a man, keep the go pedal down, the throttle WOT and just pull that freaking shifter into its gear and upshift it the same without any clutch pedal…. and when coming to a stop, downshift at the top of the existing RPM range so the car does a hellacious lurch where it feels like the engine will come through the firewall and sounds like an 18-wheeler using air brakes coming off a 53* downslope doing 95+mph into a Dragon Tail curve…



(* I’m not responsible for the content of this post, your actions to do exactly as stated above or any warranty attempts, warranty denials, property damages, and/or medical issues, preexisting or existing afterwards. However if in a dire emergency situation where a hydraulic clutch fails, a z-bar clutch system breaks, or a cable operated clutch snaps, the above shifting methods will work to continue driving like a man for highway, drag strip or road race duration before final exit)..

 

[Garfy]

Clutch wear is negligible with rev matching. There is still wear to the synchros unless you are double clutching though.

True, while you can shift without depressing the clutch by playing with the throttle, it still wreaks havoc with the brass synchro rings. To illustrate this, if one can find a really early vehicle that had no synchro rings, try shifting without the clutch and you'll hear some grinding on each shift as you can't possibly match the rpm perfectly. That is what the synchronizers are taking up the slack for and wearing to match the rpm differences.

 

[SheepDog]

Im not talking about engine braking, bro. Im talking about using the clutch to slow down the vehicle instead of using the brakes, bro. People like to downshift multiple times when simply coming to a stop, forcing the clutch to engage multiple times just to slow down the vehicle.

Go ahead and sign up for a Ford Racing Performance school class or 2 in Charlotte, and then after the instructors break you of this habit and you actually learn how to drive, come back and post up your findings. Rev match or no rev match, the brakes are for stopping/slowing down, the clutch is for shifting into the correct gear so that you are in the correct power band to exit a corner and accelerate. If you are using the clutch to slow the vehicle to aid the brakes, you are doing it wrong, and unnecessarily wearing the clutch. Brakes are cheap, clutches are not.

 

[Redfuzzbutt]

Goodness, I love the opinions and the "logic" used to justify them. I'm sure there is a proper and more efficient way of shifting gears that what I do/am accustomed to and while interesting and valuable in certain conditions, we are half way forgetting one important thing: we drive manuals.

90%+ of us that drive manuals is for the engagement of the car, not better efficiency. Row your gears, learn your car and if you annoy someone while blipping your throttle while dropping another gear coming up to a traffic light or stop sign, then that's on them. Not everyone wants the automatic or a CVT, or a soulless EV.

For the argument of "more wear on clutch", that's why you revmatch, to reduce the frictional wear. If that's not the case, then I hope you skip gears when upshifting and waiting for your RPMs to drop down to 1000 or whatever it is for your 2-4 gear shift while never going above 3500. That's a fine way to enjoy your 400whp sports car, Nancy.

 

[Balr14]

You are over-thinking things. Just do whatever feels comfortable to you. It isn't going to affect anything. Sometimes I rev match (just because I feel like it), sometimes I downshift (why not), sometimes I put the clutch in and coast to a stop. Odds are most of your driving is in heavy traffic, so why make it a huge chore.

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